Georgia and Russia

[Varus Torvyn]

I feel that Putin wants to annex Georgia back into communist control. He won't be satisfied with only defeating them. This is Hungary all over again. And let's not forget what happened to Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania so long ago. Russia annexed them when they wanted to be free.

 

Even if Georgia's government made a wrong move and is the root cause of this, Russia has no right to demand the Georgia president be removed and make a blatant attempt to take over the entire nation.

 

Defeat their soldiers, all well & good - but don't use this as a pretext for annexation.

 

And the U.S. is not wrong in ferrying the Georgian soldiers back to their homeland. We owe them transportation. They helped us in the War on Terror.

[humanbean234]

I feel that Putin wants to annex Georgia back into communist control. He won't be satisfied with only defeating them. This is Hungary all over again. And let's not forget what happened to Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania so long ago. Russia annexed them when they wanted to be free.

 

Even if Georgia's government made a wrong move and is the root cause of this, Russia has no right to demand the Georgia president be removed and make a blatant attempt to take over the entire nation.

 

Defeat their soldiers, all well & good - but don't use this as a pretext for annexation.

 

And the U.S. is not wrong in ferrying the Georgian soldiers back to their homeland. We owe them transportation. They helped us in the War on Terror.

 

I never said the US was wrong in providing assistance in repatriating Georgian soldiers; I rather doubt that Georgia has airlift assets capable of moving a Battalion+ size element in quick fashion. My concern in that matter is the possibility of said craft being attacked, and possible reprisals for same. (Unlikely, since the route they'll take is coming in from the south, well-away from the range of Russian weapons, but still...)

 

Personal gripe: Calling the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq "The War on Terror" is pure propaganda and hype. If it looks like a spade, call it a spade. They'd be better titled "The Wars of Vengeance and Oil."

[Varus Torvyn]

I feel that Putin wants to annex Georgia back into communist control. He won't be satisfied with only defeating them. This is Hungary all over again. And let's not forget what happened to Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania so long ago. Russia annexed them when they wanted to be free.

 

Even if Georgia's government made a wrong move and is the root cause of this, Russia has no right to demand the Georgia president be removed and make a blatant attempt to take over the entire nation.

 

Defeat their soldiers, all well & good - but don't use this as a pretext for annexation.

 

And the U.S. is not wrong in ferrying the Georgian soldiers back to their homeland. We owe them transportation. They helped us in the War on Terror.

 

I never said the US was wrong in providing assistance in repatriating Georgian soldiers; I rather doubt that Georgia has airlift assets capable of moving a Battalion+ size element in quick fashion. My concern in that matter is the possibility of said craft being attacked, and possible reprisals for same. (Unlikely, since the route they'll take is coming in from the south, well-away from the range of Russian weapons, but still...)

Bush has undoubtedly informed Putin to "back off" of U.S. aircraft anyway. Putin knows he'll have his backside handed to him if he dared to attack our planes.

[Timihendrix91]

I ask you Timihendrix91, why were Russian Peacekeeping forces in Ossetia in the first place? Ossetia is a breakaway province of "Georgia," thus simply by having those peacekeeping forces there, Russia was displaying a sign of aggression against Georgia by supporting a breakaway province in that manor.

A "breakaway" nation that contained a huge percentage of russian citizens and that also was in the process of joining russia, just as north ossetia had done.

 

Bush has undoubtedly informed Putin to "back off" of U.S. aircraft anyway. Putin knows he'll have his backside handed to him if he dared to attack our planes.

the US would lose if we invaded Russia, so yeah..

 

Personal gripe: Calling the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq "The War on Terror" is pure propaganda and hype. If it looks like a spade, call it a spade. They'd be better titled "The Wars of Vengeance and Oil."

+2

[nosisab]

Philosopher "Confused"

 

Wow, it's Confucius, buddy. wallbash.gif

 

I really hoped the quotes would help...

 

What really amazes me is "Confused" was take by Confucius (although the similarity was intentional, indeed), worse, it would be take as a blatant error, and even "indeed" was intended to link the said to the name.

 

But the original intention was achieved. empowered everything that followed. Mainly that part that says about the eager to take positions second an insufficient/malformed base...

 

Sadly so many people prefers to contribute with first thought answers instead asking/demanding response to well pondered questions.

 

So I change the statement and make clear "I say" it: "Tis easy to blame/defend things when we think we don't need to answer for our answers" (or we don't perceive/concern what our words are doing).

[Timihendrix91]

Philosopher "Confused"

 

Wow, it's Confucius, buddy. wallbash.gif

 

I really hoped the quotes would help...

 

What really amazes me is "Confused" was take by Confucius (although the similarity was intentional, indeed), worse, it would be take as a blatant error, and even "indeed" was intended to link the said to the name.

 

But the original intention was achieved. empowered everything that followed. Mainly that part that says about the eager to take positions second an insufficient/malformed base...

 

Sadly so many people prefers to contribute with first thought answers instead asking/demanding response to well pondered questions.

 

So I change the statement and make clear "I say" it: "Tis easy to blame/defend things when we think we don't need to answer for our answers" (or we don't perceive/concern what our words are doing).

 

Forgive me for asking, but just what are you talking about?

[DarkWarrior45]

the US would lose if we invaded Russia, so yeah..

 

How much are you willing to bet on that? That statement right there is the very reason why we lost the Vietnam war.

 

President Abe Lincoln was told that he wouldn't win against the Confederacy, and guess what happened? FDR and Churchill were told that WWII was a losing battle, and guess what happened?

 

Personal gripe: Calling the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq "The War on Terror" is pure propaganda and hype. If it looks like a spade, call it a spade. They'd be better titled "The Wars of Vengeance and Oil."

 

Personal rant: So 9/11 is propaganda? 3,000 dead in the streets of New York propaganda? I think that's the biggest.... I can't finish that sentence because of forum rules. The War of Terror is not propaganda. The conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan is not about oil. If so, then why did Bush lift the ban on offshore drilling here in the US. Why would we be so adamant about getting away from foreign oil?

 

And besides, this thread is about Russia and Georgia, not about Iraq, so it's off-topic.

[Varus Torvyn]

Personal gripe: Calling the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq "The War on Terror" is pure propaganda and hype. If it looks like a spade, call it a spade. They'd be better titled "The Wars of Vengeance and Oil."

I'm glad you labeled this as a personal gripe. It would actually be a thread hijack to cross over into a discussion of this issue. The thread is about Russia & Georgia.

 

It leads to two differing opinions as to the real motivations behind the current conflicts. Both sides feel they have the "moral high ground" and will not budge.

 

So my thought would be let's just agree to disagree, and put that debate to rest here, or else open a separate topic on that issue. I'd rather stay on topic of Russia & Georgia.

 

Humanbean, my original point was we owed the Georgian soldiers an airlift for helping the United States. They did not have to send soldiers to help, but they did.

 

I personally believe that Americans should give thanks for and highlight another nation's unselfish help in fighting terrorists. So I was saying this is a way for us to thank them for helping.

[Timihendrix91]

How much are you willing to bet on that? That statement right there is the very reason why we lost the Vietnam war.

 

President Abe Lincoln was told that he wouldn't win against the Confederacy, and guess what happened? FDR and Churchill were told that WWII was a losing battle, and guess what happened?

Uh, Russia>>>>>Vietnam. Let's not forget that we didn't have our army stretched thin in two wars (We don't even have the amount of soldiers that we need in Afghanistan), and our country didn't have a national debt of 9 trillion dollars. We can't even pay for our wars anymore, we've taken out massive (talking hundreds of billions) of dollars in loans from china.

 

When you couple all of that with the fact that they have a missile defense system and we don't, I think it's easy to tell who would win.

 

Personal rant: So 9/11 is propaganda? 3,000 dead in the streets of New York propaganda? I think that's the biggest.... I can't finish that sentence because of forum rules. The War of Terror is not propaganda mister. The conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan is not about oil. If so, then why did Bush lift the ban on offshore drilling here in the US. Why would we be so adamant about getting away from foreign oil?

It is quite well known that saddam had nothing to do with al-quita. The offshore drilling matter is purely politics. Even Bush's own energy expert admitted that it won't make a difference in price until 2026, and that's if we started drilling a couple of weeks ago.

[DarkWarrior45]

Uhm, reality check, we're the ones with the defense system. There is already speculation that NATO should put it in the Ukraine from recent events. Although I agree with the dept aspect.