Should Cultural Icons Be Off- limits to Mod Authors?

[Fkemman11]

Cultural icons are used in mods some times and are enjoyed by the people who download and use it like an american Indian headdress, or a certain kind of tattoo, or Viking axe, or a Spanish bull fighter, etc. However, some groups of people may decide that the use of what they consider is "their" cultural icons is offensive to them and ask or demand that the mod author remove it from their mod. Should the mod author comply? Should mod authors- and artists for that matter- be allowed to use what could be considered cultural icons at all so as not to offend anyone? And who would decide what is a cultural icon or not?

[Deleted3423134User]

If something is considered sacred and/or important to a group, particularly one that is marginalised and still suffering the effects of genocide (Indigenous peoples in particular), it's pretty trashy for someone not of said group to appropriate said icon for any creative work, let alone a mod. That being said, I really don't approve of any RL sacred/cultural icon being used in mods, and that includes the Abrahamic and other faiths.

 

Of course, I'm the grandchild of a Stolen Generations Australian Aboriginal woman who suffered loss of country and culture, so it's very much family history for me.

 

There's a big difference between a Viking style axe and a didgeridoo.

In the end, if someone comes from said culture and saying 'can you please remove this, it's not respectful' to a mod author, I think it's pretty reasonable to expect the mod author to remove it.

[Fkemman11]

What about game devs that use cultural icons in their games. Should I politely ask Beth to redo Fallout 4 because I live in Boston and don't like the way it is depicted in their game? Or maybe because I am an American, it is enough for me to claim that I don't like the portrayal of the Minute Men in their game and ask them to use something else? Do you see where this leads?

[Deleted3423134User]

What about game devs that use cultural icons in their games. Should I politely ask Beth to redo Fallout 4 because I live in Boston and don't like the way it is depicted in their game? Do you see where this leads?

 

You know what? I'm not getting into this because you're more intent on free speech than respecting a marginalised culture's right to protect its sacred and significant properties.

[Fkemman11]

 

 

You know what? I'm not getting into this because you're more intent on free speech than respecting a marginalised culture's right to protect its sacred and significant properties.

 

My mother is one quarter Sioux Indian. I showed her a pic of the Indian headdress in game and she liked it. Does her opinion matter? Exactly what makes one culture's developments or inventions more "sacred" than another's? I find that very idea offensive. BTW, ALL cultures have been "marginalized" at one point in time or another.

[RGMage2]

The very idea of cultural appropriation is something that I simply don't accept as being a legitimate argument, at least not when being applied with such a broad brush as is being done by its most strident proponents.

 

I see our divergent cultures as precious and to be cherished, but also to be shared. As long as the use of the cultural icon is done in a respectful way then I see nothing wrong with it. If on the other hand it were used in a way that mocked that culture, then that is a very different thing.

 

Speaking as a mod author, if someone contacted me about something I included in one of my mods, and used the "Cultural Appropriation" argument, they would get absolutely nowhere with me. But, if they can make a well reasoned argument on why it shouldn't be used in the way I used it. example: treating a rarely used ceremonial or religious item as a common item and with a lack of appropriate reverence, then I might be inclined to make changes, but only if I accepted their argument. It's not for someone else to tell me how to think. You can make the argument, but it better be a good one if you expect me to accept it.

[HeyYou]

I think the whole idea of 'cultural appropriation' in a GAME is a non-starter. Folks whining about this particular 'offense' really need to get a life. There are much bigger issues in the REAL world they should be addressing.

[Fkemman11]

I think the whole idea of 'cultural appropriation' in a GAME is a non-starter. Folks whining about this particular 'offense' really need to get a life. There are much bigger issues in the REAL world they should be addressing.

Yeah, that's pretty much my opinion as well. If something about a mod offends you, then don't use it. But, don't try to ruin everyone else's fun. :smile:

 

The very idea of cultural appropriation is something that I simply don't accept as being a legitimate argument, at least not when being applied with such a broad brush as is being done by its most strident proponents.

 

I see our divergent cultures as precious and to be cherished, but also to be shared. As long as the use of the cultural icon is done in a respectful way then I see nothing wrong with it. If on the other hand it were used in a way that mocked that culture, then that is a very different thing.

 

Speaking as a mod author, if someone contacted me about something I included in one of my mods, and used the "Cultural Appropriation" argument, they would get absolutely nowhere with me. But, if they can make a well reasoned argument on why it shouldn't be used in the way I used it. example: treating a rarely used ceremonial or religious item as a common item and with a lack of appropriate reverence, then I might be inclined to make changes, but only if I accepted their argument. It's not for someone else to tell me how to think. You can make the argument, but it better be a good one if you expect me to accept it.

Well said and If someone had a legitimate argument about why I shouldn't use something, then I would listen as well. Doesn't mean I would agree. But this just feels to me like they are taking things way too seriously or just trying to see if authors will cave if they apply some group pressure. Some have.

 

Probably it's nothing that I should be that concerned with. But I will be watching for more.

[xvdoc]

What about game devs that use cultural icons in their games. Should I politely ask Beth to redo Fallout 4 because I live in Boston and don't like the way it is depicted in their game? Or maybe because I am an American, it is enough for me to claim that I don't like the portrayal of the Minute Men in their game and ask them to use something else? Do you see where this leads?

Even if you did complain to them, most likely they will probably reply you with generic professional thank-you courtesy and they will forward the message to someone (to the trash bin). .... unless you gather people who support your idea and take legal action against the game devs.

[xvdoc]

Cultural icons are used in mods some times and are enjoyed by the people who download and use it like an american Indian headdress, or a certain kind of tattoo, or Viking axe, or a Spanish bull fighter, etc. However, some groups of people may decide that the use of what they consider is "their" cultural icons is offensive to them and ask or demand that the mod author remove it from their mod. Should the mod author comply? Should mod authors- and artists for that matter- be allowed to use what could be considered cultural icons at all so as not to offend anyone? And who would decide what is a cultural icon or not?

 

depends on the mod author's resistance and how strongly that the people complain, really. I doubt a single unknown person/troll (or any newly registered users) who complain about it will cause the mod author comply to the wishes of some unknown troll... eh person.

 

If sufficient amount of people who complains and staff or moderation team involved into it, the mod author probably will have to remove it whether the mod author like it or not.