Something Bethesda Missed

[TheGadget1945]

So, I go to the church at Flatwoods. I am level 20 and a level 5 player turns up in a suit of power armour somehow. While I am looking at him he shoots me and kills me, presumably stealing my paper bag after I drop it. I click "Seek Revenge" and when I revive he has disappeared, presumably having logged off. I imagine Bethesda didn't anticipate this kind of behavIour but what protection do we have against parasites like this ?

[zanity]

Your fellow players are 'parasites'- charming, just charming. All cos they don't play as you do.

 

Here's a CLUE. You should be grateful for anyone who willingly paid for this game- and willingly continues to play. AND you should understand that unless a multi-player game is CO-OP only, or offers co-op only servers, LEGAL griefing (as opposed to hack cheating) in the game is what the game is designed for.

 

Logging out MAY seem like a meta exploit- but Beth very carefully chose to give players this option. I hate every thing Beth chose to do with Fallout:76, but that is one person's opinion. Willing players clearly have another (else why would you give Beth your money in the first place, when since E3 people like me have clearly spelt out Beth's intents and desires for the game).

 

A game like FO:76 is all about the hardcore 'power play'. That's why the best took pride in beating the END GAME on the very first day the full game went live.

 

Here's a clue- on a multiplayer game, any player should be free to play in whatever way they like (without using hacks). If there is an 'exploit', that is 100% the fault of the dev's lousy QA, and never the player's fault.

 

The PROBLEM with Fallout:76 is that many maive and foolish purchasers of this game have only ever experienced the SAFE SPACE of single player open world Beth games, and arrogantly think the same 'safe space' logic should apply to a multi-player game. In fairness to Todd, he said over and over again he wanted DRAMA in his Fallout:76. That Fallout:76 must not be about 'safe spaces', but cruel spaces- just as you'd expect in a post apocalypse drama.

 

In reality, a player of Fallout:76 must make their 'fun' however they can, including exploiting the log out trick. If you hate this, there is a very simple answer- PLAY BETTER GAMES. Do not financial encourage lousy developers. Even if you love their IP. I love the Fallout IP- but this does not mean I'll accept buying and playing a broken mess of a Fallout game with no internal gameplay mechanisms of note or value.

 

I personally do not think Beth can be saved, and believe Beth will never again develop a traditional open world game. But if YOU think they can and will, it will only happen if people send Beth the loudest possible message when they purposely betray their core audience with a cynical disaster like Fallout:76.

 

Remember, tomorrow Todd could pay an external team to make another entry in the Fallout or Elder scrolls Franchise using existing tools and engine and get something back at least as good as Skyrim or better than Fallout 4 within 2 years, and at less than ONE THIRD of the dev costs of Fallout:76. He could even hand over the dumpster fire that is Fallout:76's code and tool resources to an external dev, and get back within two years a CO-OP game with actual NPCs you can have a conversation with.

 

Internally, under Todd Howard's management, none of these things are possible.

 

And yeah, an external dev under cheap contract to Beth CANNOT make a state of the art game like Dying Light 2, open world Metro, RDR2, or Cyberpunk. Their game would be the same dated engine- but it would be made fast and be fun to play for those of us that have really liked the earlier games.

 

But this is a NON-TOXIC view. When one willing player of a new Beth game is calling another willing player a "PARASITE", our once friendly community has succumbed to TOXIC TODD syndrome. It never had to be like this- and seeing what FO:76 has done to our community makes me sad.

[Korvic]

But this is a NON-TOXIC view. When one willing player of a new Beth game is calling another willing player a "PARASITE", our once friendly community has succumbed to TOXIC TODD syndrome. It never had to be like this- and seeing what FO:76 has done to our community makes me sad.

Don't become a Toxic Todd too, we don't need to talk down to people who've fallen prey to 76. Advertising/Marketing and dedication to the IP has claimed many.

 

Back on topic, though. The only real way to get around the log-out stuff is to not 'play' the game as it were. Pacifist so you don't die in the first place, watching your map so they can't sneak up on you and avoiding all player confrontation, etc. You can also take a bit of extra time to see if they out-gear you and weigh your odds before firing back. Unless Beth is made aware and changes the way that whole system works, which would be nice regardless imo, you've gotta play around it, just like they are playing with it.

 

Always be aware of your surroundings, check the map a bit more frequently to see if anyone's closing on your position. Never assume that you'll be able to respawn and go get your stuff back. From past experience and a lot of hours in DayZ and Exile (Arma 2 & Arma 3 Mods of similar design), going back to your corpse is a death wish, and if you don't die, the person has long since left. If you have to pass by someone, always try to hide in foliage and stay low. Sometimes getting a bit closer to them to walk along a hillside instead of going over the top can make you stand out less against the horizon. Of course all this is null if they're doing the same because of the public map, but the confrontation will boil down to who can pew pew better, no matter how cautious you are.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Korvic

[Deleted54170User]

So, I go to the church at Flatwoods. I am level 20 and a level 5 player turns up in a suit of power armour somehow. While I am looking at him he shoots me and kills me, presumably stealing my paper bag after I drop it. I click "Seek Revenge" and when I revive he has disappeared, presumably having logged off. I imagine Bethesda didn't anticipate this kind of behavIour but what protection do we have against parasites like this ?

 

I like the following information the TheGadget1945 wrote.

[TheGadget1945]

 

But this is a NON-TOXIC view. When one willing player of a new Beth game is calling another willing player a "PARASITE", our once friendly community has succumbed to TOXIC TODD syndrome. It never had to be like this- and seeing what FO:76 has done to our community makes me sad.

Don't become a Toxic Todd too, we don't need to talk down to people who've fallen prey to 76. Advertising/Marketing and dedication to the IP has claimed many.

 

Back on topic, though. The only real way to get around the log-out stuff is to not 'play' the game as it were. Pacifist so you don't die in the first place, watching your map so they can't sneak up on you and avoiding all player confrontation, etc. You can also take a bit of extra time to see if they out-gear you and weigh your odds before firing back. Unless Beth is made aware and changes the way that whole system works, which would be nice regardless imo, you've gotta play around it, just like they are playing with it.

 

Always be aware of your surroundings, check the map a bit more frequently to see if anyone's closing on your position. Never assume that you'll be able to respawn and go get your stuff back. From past experience and a lot of hours in DayZ and Exile (Arma 2 & Arma 3 Mods of similar design), going back to your corpse is a death wish, and if you don't die, the person has long since left. If you have to pass by someone, always try to hide in foliage and stay low. Sometimes getting a bit closer to them to walk along a hillside instead of going over the top can make you stand out less against the horizon. Of course all this is null if they're doing the same because of the public map, but the confrontation will boil down to who can pew pew better, no matter how cautious you are.

 

 

I freely admit that I have never played an online game before. I didn't "fall prey" to advertising, I was well aware of the universally bad reviews this game got but I decided to give it a shot for the £40 it cost me. It's been a struggle so far but I am past the point where I used to swear at the monitor, and the good moments where I have helped other players to complete an Event or just helped them not get killed outweigh the bad.

[montky]

@ Gadget'45

 

I freely admit that I have never played an online game before... I decided to give it a shot

cue Obi meme.

"Congratulations, you've taken your first step |protagonist|, into a new reality" (the original line outttake from '77)

alongside

"Not a Bug, maybe feature?" Meme. hehe.

----

 

ah, the 'griefer'.

Ever since the analog times,

with Pen-and-Paper Roleplaying Games and Tabletop Boardgames,

there have been "Min-Max'er Players", "Asymmetric Victory Conditions" and "Meta-Gamers"...

 

bored with the game, they made a game (often with 'hidden rules') of their own...

Their victory condition is;

"Player is happiest when other players are least happy."

In RolePlayingGame terms,

they are players who wish to be Player-GamesMasters.

 

 

what protection do we have against parasites like this ?

today, for that particular framework,

the options are rather limited;

i) baud 'lagspike' --- there are ways to alter the latency, if you suspect a repeat individual is likely to try asymmetric stuff,

it's possible to temporarily increase the lagginess. The Griefer will then quit of their own accord,

usually of the form

"This session's laggy" ---> "Fix Your Servers" ---> ^_Rage-quit.

This format requires communication with the other players in the session, or, private invite-only server.

 

ii)invite only servers with vetting.

-players are interviewed prior to being issued an invitation.

-players who habitually grief ^{_{get perma-banned}}, simples.

 

iii) logging cryptographic random-interval windows,

combined with 'musical chairs events"

---- So, rad-storms might be a thing... and, guess what?!

certain 'shelters' are Good-only. or "Neutral-only".

so, evil players will be unable to take advantage of those shelters from periodic weather events,

or 'zombie-horde' etc.

If an AGI-GamesMaster were assigning fetch-quests, it might wait until the more of Good Players were closest to the musical-chair,

prior to initiating an event... it may even manually override the walk-speed parameter of particularly evil folks.

 

Hint, those 'rad-ghosts' might be game moderators,

who deal insta-defeat-damage to griefers...

 

 

 

so in terms of game design,

usually, games will sift the metadata from players,

to sort players by SkillLevel and PlayStyle

(ie, grouped by their SPECIAL RPG-sheet and their "Character Ethical Alignment")

 

All players start out 'neutral + |alignment from character sheet if any|', and are subsequently grouped by metadata.

 

Such that,

Good servers are demographically populated by;

80% good, 10-15% Neutral, 5-10% bad (with bad being not a random sample from 'bad', but 'the least bad from bad').

etc.

 

This then calibrates the "Random Ambient Events Per Gameplay Hour"

from "Random Act of Kindness" to "Random Act of "^{_{wHaT ThE}}?!" per gameplay hour.

Good players prefer to experience "Random Acts of Kindness"

Neutral don't mind either,

Evil prefer "random acts of what-the"

 

-----

FO76 is different in that,

it might sift that metadata but it's consciously doing least processing on that.

it's a random-random matching theoretic approach.

FO76 wants there to be 'least influence into interactions' and 'most random uninfluenced interactions possible".

 

 

 

[TheGadget1945]

@ Gadget'45

 

I freely admit that I have never played an online game before... I decided to give it a shot

cue Obi meme.

"Congratulations, you've taken your first step |protagonist|, into a new reality" (the original line outttake from '77)

alongside

"Not a Bug, maybe feature?" Meme. hehe.

----

 

ah, the 'griefer'.

Ever since the analog times,

with Pen-and-Paper Roleplaying Games and Tabletop Boardgames,

there have been "Min-Max'er Players", "Asymmetric Victory Conditions" and "Meta-Gamers"...

 

bored with the game, they made a game (often with 'hidden rules') of their own...

Their victory condition is;

"Player is happiest when other players are least happy."

In RolePlayingGame terms,

they are players who wish to be Player-GamesMasters.

 

 

what protection do we have against parasites like this ?

today, for that particular framework,

the options are rather limited;

i) baud 'lagspike' --- there are ways to alter the latency, if you suspect a repeat individual is likely to try asymmetric stuff,

it's possible to temporarily increase the lagginess. The Griefer will then quit of their own accord,

usually of the form

"This session's laggy" ---> "Fix Your Servers" --->

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting a sensible reply to my question.

An alternative to habitual griefers being permanently banned would be to permanently marked as "wanted" ?

The funny thing today I tried to "Power Up Poseidon" and could see a Wanted player closing in on the power station with a reward of 5 caps on his head. I went round killing the Scorched and so on, and eventually there he was in the same room. I had dosed up on chems and had a powerful weapon equipped and I asked him "what's it gonna be" but he just played as if I wasn't there and eventually disappeared.

It seems that my best strategy is to play these jerks at their own game and when they get near me, log off. If I had done today he would probably have died.

[montky]

Re Post#7

It's no trouble at all Gadget'45

that'd be great too, put an auto-bounty of ~300 Caps on griefers.

2 Griefers can't grief, then make ~300 caps by having a "Chindogu/Unuseless Machine Controller"

(programmable controller)

then blast each other however...

 

Still

 

 

I think they should be perma banned from Invite-Only Servers, iff they don't show cause.

(That will be the case for any custom private invite-only servers I collab on, in any event.)

also, possibly auto-banned from "Good-only" Servers for that account.

 

Good, Neutral and Evil have separate servers,

different demography and all.

Evil's 'player mix" is ~

40% Evil, 40% Neutral, ~20%Good. or

80% Evil, 5%neutral, 15% good. (The more evil themed servers).

See, at the moment,

in terms of game-design and 'matching-theoretic' framework,

it's much more stochastic, each server is a random assortment which gets sifted over time.

(which is an interesting way to approach it; few games are "random-random" anymore for the matching).