Those "What have I done?" Moments

[ClonePatrol]

A lot of games have them, but some of the ones in Skyrim strike me as a bit... I dunno, more. I had my first one a while back when I first played the College of Winterhold quest-line in the quest 'Hitting the Books'.

 

If you don't recall the quest, after finding the Eye of Magnus in Saarthal the player is told to seek more information on it in the College's library, so Urag gro-Shub (the Orsimer librarian at the College) sends them to retrieve some books that were stolen from the library by a former apprentice named Orthorn who ran off to Fellglow Keep to join some other mages who left the college. A lot of mages seem to leave that college on unfriendly terms, don't they?

 

Anyway, I go off to Fellglow Keep to get the books, just another fetch quest, right? I get there, and me and my followers pretty much butcher every single 'enemy' present, standard protocol. I get to the last part of the Keep, the ritual chamber, and am confronted by The Caller, who is quite understandably pissed that I just killed all her followers. And for what? Three books that I don't really need after I've had the chance to read them?

 

But when the "What have I done" moment really struck me is when after all that the game let me just persuade her to give me the books and leave (it'd seem like she'd want revenge, she never sends any thugs or assassins though). As if I may have just been able to arrange a meeting and get the books that way from the start, but for some reason my PC decided the more reasonable option was to straight up assault their keep with absolutely no warning (some but not all were necromancers, but whether necromancy is evil is debatable). The option not to kill them is only sort of there though, it's possible but extremely difficult (I had to use powerful fortify sneak gear on a char with maxed sneak skill) to sneak all the way through the place and not kill anyone, but The Caller still reacted as if I did (which I take to mean I was supposed to, and sneaking through wasn't supposed to be possible).

 

When the option popped up at first I thought there was no way it'd work (an auto-fail just for the dialogue), or it's gotta be some kind of trick, but it did work and if it was a trick I can't figure out how. When I clicked it and it worked I had to just stare at the screen incredulously for a few minutes. For a long time I kept expecting her to send the Dark Brotherhood after me or something, and later found out that never happens. It really seemed like my character was a bit of a monster and she was being the bigger person. What the Hell, Hero?

 

Does anyone else have any Skyrim stories like this? I'd love to hear them.

[BrettM]

Those in Fellglow Keep were conducting experiments on unwilling victims, including members of their own group. That makes them evil. The Caller was leading them in this effort. That makes HER evil. I have no compunction about refusing to negotiate with evil.

[Matth85]

Those in Fellglow Keep were conducting experiments on unwilling victims, including members of their own group. That makes them evil. The Caller was leading them in this effort. That makes HER evil. I have no compunction about refusing to negotiate with evil.

Yet murdering everybody in sight, without even trying to understand what's going on, instead of doing it peacefully and/or understanding what's going on, is considered "good"?

 

And yeah, I felt that a few (hundred) times throughout my road to level 81. First one actually happened in a random cave a little off Whiterun. Containing the guy that doesn't see very well. After "tricking" him and murdering him, I asked myself "Eh... why did he have to die? What did he ever do to me?

I also get that feeling every time I kill a wild harmless animal and dogs. First is the sound they make when they die, the latter is because I love dogs.

 

Then again, Skyrim is a cruel place, set in a cruel universe, containing cruel people.

[Relativelybest]

Anyway, I go off to Fellglow Keep to get the books, just another fetch quest, right? I get there, and me and my followers pretty much butcher every single 'enemy' present, standard protocol. I get to the last part of the Keep, the ritual chamber, and am confronted by The Caller, who is quite understandably pissed that I just killed all her followers. And for what? Three books that I don't really need after I've had the chance to read them?

 

But when the "What have I done" moment really struck me is when after all that the game let me just persuade her to give me the books and leave (it'd seem like she'd want revenge, she never sends any thugs or assassins though). As if I may have just been able to arrange a meeting and get the books that way from the start, but for some reason my PC decided the more reasonable option was to straight up assault their keep with absolutely no warning (some but not all were necromancers, but whether necromancy is evil is debatable). The option not to kill them is only sort of there though, it's possible but extremely difficult (I had to use powerful fortify sneak gear on a char with maxed sneak skill) to sneak all the way through the place and not kill anyone, but The Caller still reacted as if I did (which I take to mean I was supposed to, and sneaking through wasn't supposed to be possible).

 

When the option popped up at first I thought there was no way it'd work (an auto-fail just for the dialogue), or it's gotta be some kind of trick, but it did work and if it was a trick I can't figure out how. When I clicked it and it worked I had to just stare at the screen incredulously for a few minutes. For a long time I kept expecting her to send the Dark Brotherhood after me or something, and later found out that never happens. It really seemed like my character was a bit of a monster and she was being the bigger person. What the Hell, Hero?

 

Yeah, well, try this: Sheath your weapon and walk into Fellglow Keep through the front door as if you were a peaceful visitor.

 

I'm pretty sure those mages are going to attack you on sight and keep attacking you until you are dead. You get no option to surrender, you can't ask them to take you to their leader, etc. So, of course you need to kill them. It's self defense. If the Caller didn't want that to happen, maybe she should have instructed her followers to behave like reasonable human beings.

 

It's the same thing with those damn Forworn. Whatever their story is, I have zero sympathy for them simply because they'll attack me the moment I get within arrow distance because I walked too close to their camp or ran into them on a road.

 

You can't blame your character for being a ruthless killing machine when the game literally don't give you any other choice, is what I'm basically saying.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Relativelybest

[Dovahkiin069]

Those in Fellglow Keep were conducting experiments on unwilling victims, including members of their own group. That makes them evil. The Caller was leading them in this effort. That makes HER evil. I have no compunction about refusing to negotiate with evil.

Some of those "victims" are vampires masters.And i don´t know if you already see it, but thet got locked vampires that call you "meat".I have nothing against vampires(i'm one), but they are evil, and they like to kill innocent people.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Dovahkiin069

[BrettM]

Using vampires for experiments, even if they're evil vampires, seems way out of line. One can argue that it is moral and just to kill a murderer humanely, but I can't think of a good moral justification for condemning them to death by torture.

 

I do, however, wish there were some options for peacefully scoping out a situation to get proper information before deciding what to do. Peryite's quest is another one where everyone attacks you on sight. The Afflicted are apparently working on a plan and preparing materials to spread a deadly plague, and I think it's justified to put a stop to that. But, what about Orchendor, their leader? He supposedly betrayed Peryite somehow, which may mean that he's trying to stop the plague, which would make him one of the good guys. If I could have talked with him and gotten his side of the story, I would have let him live if this is the case. But, like the others, he attacks me on sight.

[kevkiev]

Using vampires for experiments, even if they're evil vampires, seems way out of line. One can argue that it is moral and just to kill a murderer humanely, but I can't think of a good moral justification for condemning them to death by torture.

 

I do, however, wish there were some options for peacefully scoping out a situation to get proper information before deciding what to do. Peryite's quest is another one where everyone attacks you on sight. The Afflicted are apparently working on a plan and preparing materials to spread a deadly plague, and I think it's justified to put a stop to that. But, what about Orchendor, their leader? He supposedly betrayed Peryite somehow, which may mean that he's trying to stop the plague, which would make him one of the good guys. If I could have talked with him and gotten his side of the story, I would have let him live if this is the case. But, like the others, he attacks me on sight.

 

Yeah, one thing that comes to mind was in the Dwarven ruin during the Peryite quest when you happen upon that woman talking to her sleeping brother and saying that she regretted getting involved with the whole clan. I ended up sneaking back out of the room to spare their lives. Admittedly though, when Peryite told me he'd get another leader soon enough and eventually spread the plague I went back and killed those 2 as well. But I felt like a real SOB for doing so.

 

I too wish skyrim would have more opportunities NOT to kill everyone in sight. I think it would have added a lot to the story/ gameplay. One time that comes to mind atm is after clearing out Liar's Cave (? Liar's something anyway - the one with the Falmer v. Bandit battle). It would have been nice to dialogue with the 2 bandits you save from captivity (before, sigh, killing them 'cuz they immediatly attack), or at least with the remaining group of bandits who enter the dining room when you try to leave. "Hey, we didn't kill all your pals, it was the Falmer and we wiped 'em out for ya! Let's have some mead and we'll tell you all about it."

 

I jump at the rare chances to avoid the usual massacre when I can. For example, those uncommon occassions when a forsworn, bandit or wizard will warn you to "back off, don't come any closer." I always back off when that happens.

[Kraeten]

Killing The King In Rags and helping Thonar certainly left me feeling disgusted. It's a pity the Forsworn are so blindly vengeful, I might have helped them if they were otherwise.

[Cipherthe3vil]

Killing The King In Rags and helping Thonar certainly left me feeling disgusted. It's a pity the Forsworn are so blindly vengeful, I might have helped them if they were otherwise.

 

I had pity for the Forsworn when I first started playing. I even downloaded a mod to join them (if not just for their sexier outfits that are superior to the Stormcloaks and for their cool Briarhearts and Hagravens'n Witches.

 

But as the game went on I see the forsworn as less then human. Their demonic fools who kill anyone for anything and seek nothing but the murder of Nords.

The character I play is Listener and has completed the Dark Brotherhood questline. She has romantic and very "noble" ideas about killing and assassination, and sees the Forsworn as vile and blasphemous of death. She kills them on sight, and with Slow Time and Whirlwind Sprint, she never gives them a chance to fight back. Assuming their even aware of her yet as she starts the death dealing with her max'd stealth.

 

I also slaughter Falmor when I run into them, because my character simply hates them due to their ways, having been with them in the past (She's a High Elf who started among them in life before breaking away and despising their antics). She supports Talos, as a mortal who ascended to godhood which is something she aspires for. Her goal is to kill a deity someday and take its place in the stars.

 

All that said, I can't recall any "What have I done?" moments. But I have felt shamed that I did not save someone. Like Rogvir, the Werewolf dude, the family at that lighthouse near-ish to Dawnstar between it and Winterhold, and that necromancer sacrifice victim in... Hobs Fall cave. (I did manage to save her however, when I reloaded the save and skipped the shiz and jumped straight up the wall from the entrance with a bit of tricky footwork.)

[BrettM]

Killing The King In Rags and helping Thonar certainly left me feeling disgusted.

Which is why I like to put an arrow in Thonar after he gives me my stuff back. If you're quick enough about it and have a good stealth rank, you can do it without alerting any guards.