Taking down the GameFront files

[n0e]

In response to post #67080466. #67081506, #67082576 are all replies on the same post.

Shadohz wrote: GF??!! Wow, I hadn't heard of that brand in a while. This article by itself may just double their user traffic for the next month. GF has been slow-bleeding for some time. Let's get down to it. Archiving legacy and once-popular sites has been a tradition as long as I can remember. Archivers, even those with altruistic intentions, haven't always exercised the best judgment in securing the permissions or respecting the autonomy of the archivee. The archiver takes on the cost of hosting and delivery of files and has to rely on the mercy of donations from a few because Azura knows it's like trying to pry a penny from Scrooge McDuck to get more than 3% of your base to give any significant amount if you offer something for free. The archiver also however gets the added benefit of additional traffic, users, and resources. In the words of my drug-addicted neighbor who stole my backyard refrigerator for scrap metal "You should be glad I took it off your hands. You weren't using it anyway." He was correct. I didn't want to pay the cost of hauling it for a few bucks so I just left it there. I was more offended at the fact he brazenly took it off my property without my knowing. Side note: I've since got rid of that useless mongrel and got a new dog that bites first and barks questions later.

What am I trying to say here exactly? I'm not saying it's right for whoever you're throwing shade at to take GFs (and by extension those creators) content however if those files are to survive then GF may want to rethink a long-term strategy. Remember what they said about pride in Pulp Fiction. Perhaps entering into revenue-sharing and partnership contracts with other mod sites is a good start. It at least gives allies of GF legal grounds for having the content removed from rogue sites that take content without giving credit. I mean good luck enforcing it in the Big Four countries that love engaging in pirating but in the majority of cases it should work to stop or minimize certain types of leeching behavior. Should GF enter into death kneel mode again (or any site for that matter) people are going to be apprehensive about rescuing files for fear of being called a pirate. Perhaps an independent board of gamers, modders, and professional game industry companies can create a set of guidelines for such situations and/or making source material public domain (or limited use) should one of its members unfortunately go out of business.

FileTrekker wrote: I do understand the point however, although at GameFront we've had a difficult past with owners who mismanged the site badly over the years, the site is now in the right hands and I can guarantee that is not the case. Additionally while the files are not *currently* available on Nexus due to the aforementioned issues this does not mean they can never become available again here should that worst case scenario ever occur. That being said I do feel that the main GameFront site, while it is online and alive, is running from the original database with the full metadata and user accounts etc. is the definitive place to obtain GameFront content, so, as someone who is very passionate about it (I've worked at GameFront since 2002) I would obviously like to protect the platform and it's integrity, and also the rights of the users who uploaded files to it, also. I appreciate what Nexus did and still do, and as the article states we were happy initially for them to maintain their backup, which they rightfully made given at the time there was no hope of GF returning, our return is something of a minor unforeseen miracle thanks to our dedicated volunteers and users. So the situation is complex, but I don't feel either of the parties (GF or Nexus) are at fault and we came to the agreement mutually and are happy to maintain a good relationship going forward.

Shadohz wrote: Thanks for the insight/inside FileTrekker. However don't dismiss my idea about revenue-sharing and partnership contracts. If the porn industry can figure out how to make it work then surely the game industry can. Not throwing Nexus under the bus here but we've already seen many times where "exclusivity" has caused many projects to be lost to the void because some would rather let them die than for someone else to take over. GF or Nexus exclusives could be permanently lost unintentionally or worse either site could become the next EA/Bethesda/Nintendo that gains a monopolistic hold over the market and cripples any competitor or puts a stranglehold on usage rights. Many "good companies" went bad because the right people got pushed out and the wrong people took over. I think some people such as myself are more concern with the potential longterm consequences we've seen unfold repeatedly.

Oh, don't get us wrong we would never dismiss any idea and feedback, FT was just trying to clarify the situation as it stands today. Currently we're entirely volunteer run, the site is hand built from the ground up entirely by one web developer in his spare time, for example, so where we go in the future is open to all possibilities, we read and consider every idea that comes from the modding community for how best to bring GF forward as the entire reason we spend so much of our free time to build is for you guys. :) Edited January 22, 2019 by n0e

[MadMikeyB]

In response to post #67080466. #67081506, #67082576, #67082886 are all replies on the same post.

Shadohz wrote: GF??!! Wow, I hadn't heard of that brand in a while. This article by itself may just double their user traffic for the next month. GF has been slow-bleeding for some time. Let's get down to it. Archiving legacy and once-popular sites has been a tradition as long as I can remember. Archivers, even those with altruistic intentions, haven't always exercised the best judgment in securing the permissions or respecting the autonomy of the archivee. The archiver takes on the cost of hosting and delivery of files and has to rely on the mercy of donations from a few because Azura knows it's like trying to pry a penny from Scrooge McDuck to get more than 3% of your base to give any significant amount if you offer something for free. The archiver also however gets the added benefit of additional traffic, users, and resources. In the words of my drug-addicted neighbor who stole my backyard refrigerator for scrap metal "You should be glad I took it off your hands. You weren't using it anyway." He was correct. I didn't want to pay the cost of hauling it for a few bucks so I just left it there. I was more offended at the fact he brazenly took it off my property without my knowing. Side note: I've since got rid of that useless mongrel and got a new dog that bites first and barks questions later.

What am I trying to say here exactly? I'm not saying it's right for whoever you're throwing shade at to take GFs (and by extension those creators) content however if those files are to survive then GF may want to rethink a long-term strategy. Remember what they said about pride in Pulp Fiction. Perhaps entering into revenue-sharing and partnership contracts with other mod sites is a good start. It at least gives allies of GF legal grounds for having the content removed from rogue sites that take content without giving credit. I mean good luck enforcing it in the Big Four countries that love engaging in pirating but in the majority of cases it should work to stop or minimize certain types of leeching behavior. Should GF enter into death kneel mode again (or any site for that matter) people are going to be apprehensive about rescuing files for fear of being called a pirate. Perhaps an independent board of gamers, modders, and professional game industry companies can create a set of guidelines for such situations and/or making source material public domain (or limited use) should one of its members unfortunately go out of business.

FileTrekker wrote: I do understand the point however, although at GameFront we've had a difficult past with owners who mismanged the site badly over the years, the site is now in the right hands and I can guarantee that is not the case. Additionally while the files are not *currently* available on Nexus due to the aforementioned issues this does not mean they can never become available again here should that worst case scenario ever occur. That being said I do feel that the main GameFront site, while it is online and alive, is running from the original database with the full metadata and user accounts etc. is the definitive place to obtain GameFront content, so, as someone who is very passionate about it (I've worked at GameFront since 2002) I would obviously like to protect the platform and it's integrity, and also the rights of the users who uploaded files to it, also. I appreciate what Nexus did and still do, and as the article states we were happy initially for them to maintain their backup, which they rightfully made given at the time there was no hope of GF returning, our return is something of a minor unforeseen miracle thanks to our dedicated volunteers and users. So the situation is complex, but I don't feel either of the parties (GF or Nexus) are at fault and we came to the agreement mutually and are happy to maintain a good relationship going forward.

Shadohz wrote: Thanks for the insight/inside FileTrekker. However don't dismiss my idea about revenue-sharing and partnership contracts. If the porn industry can figure out how to make it work then surely the game industry can. Not throwing Nexus under the bus here but we've already seen many times where "exclusivity" has caused many projects to be lost to the void because some would rather let them die than for someone else to take over. GF or Nexus exclusives could be permanently lost unintentionally or worse either site could become the next EA/Bethesda/Nintendo that gains a monopolistic hold over the market and cripples any competitor or puts a stranglehold on usage rights. Many "good companies" went bad because the right people got pushed out and the wrong people took over. I think some people such as myself are more concern with the potential longterm consequences we've seen unfold repeatedly. A partnership would give you both of you (or anyone you team up with) legal protection from those misusing "fair use" or pirating and any other tangible benefits while also offer the redundancy that some of would like to see.

n0e wrote: Oh, don't get us wrong we would never dismiss any idea and feedback, FT was just trying to clarify the situation as it stands today. Currently we're entirely volunteer run, the site is hand built from the ground up entirely by one web developer in his spare time, for example, so where we go in the future is open to all possibilities, we read and consider every idea that comes from the modding community for how best to bring GF forward as the entire reason we spend so much of our free time to build is for you guys. :)

Solo web developer mentioned above here.

Just want to add my thanks to Robin and the Nexus team for their understanding and co-operation, and I look forward to working more with you guys in the future :)

[Shadohz]

In response to post #67080466. #67081506, #67082576, #67082886, #67083036 are all replies on the same post.

Shadohz wrote: GF??!! Wow, I hadn't heard of that brand in a while. This article by itself may just double their user traffic for the next month. GF has been slow-bleeding for some time. Let's get down to it. Archiving legacy and once-popular sites has been a tradition as long as I can remember. Archivers, even those with altruistic intentions, haven't always exercised the best judgment in securing the permissions or respecting the autonomy of the archivee. The archiver takes on the cost of hosting and delivery of files and has to rely on the mercy of donations from a few because Azura knows it's like trying to pry a penny from Scrooge McDuck to get more than 3% of your base to give any significant amount if you offer something for free. The archiver also however gets the added benefit of additional traffic, users, and resources. In the words of my drug-addicted neighbor who stole my backyard refrigerator for scrap metal "You should be glad I took it off your hands. You weren't using it anyway." He was correct. I didn't want to pay the cost of hauling it for a few bucks so I just left it there. I was more offended at the fact he brazenly took it off my property without my knowing. Side note: I've since got rid of that useless mongrel and got a new dog that bites first and barks questions later.

What am I trying to say here exactly? I'm not saying it's right for whoever you're throwing shade at to take GFs (and by extension those creators) content however if those files are to survive then GF may want to rethink a long-term strategy. Remember what they said about pride in Pulp Fiction. Perhaps entering into revenue-sharing and partnership contracts with other mod sites is a good start. It at least gives allies of GF legal grounds for having the content removed from rogue sites that take content without giving credit. I mean good luck enforcing it in the Big Four countries that love engaging in pirating but in the majority of cases it should work to stop or minimize certain types of leeching behavior. Should GF enter into death kneel mode again (or any site for that matter) people are going to be apprehensive about rescuing files for fear of being called a pirate. Perhaps an independent board of gamers, modders, and professional game industry companies can create a set of guidelines for such situations and/or making source material public domain (or limited use) should one of its members unfortunately go out of business.

FileTrekker wrote: I do understand the point however, although at GameFront we've had a difficult past with owners who mismanged the site badly over the years, the site is now in the right hands and I can guarantee that is not the case. Additionally while the files are not *currently* available on Nexus due to the aforementioned issues this does not mean they can never become available again here should that worst case scenario ever occur. That being said I do feel that the main GameFront site, while it is online and alive, is running from the original database with the full metadata and user accounts etc. is the definitive place to obtain GameFront content, so, as someone who is very passionate about it (I've worked at GameFront since 2002) I would obviously like to protect the platform and it's integrity, and also the rights of the users who uploaded files to it, also. I appreciate what Nexus did and still do, and as the article states we were happy initially for them to maintain their backup, which they rightfully made given at the time there was no hope of GF returning, our return is something of a minor unforeseen miracle thanks to our dedicated volunteers and users. So the situation is complex, but I don't feel either of the parties (GF or Nexus) are at fault and we came to the agreement mutually and are happy to maintain a good relationship going forward.

Shadohz wrote: Thanks for the insight/inside FileTrekker. However don't dismiss my idea about revenue-sharing and partnership contracts. If the porn industry can figure out how to make it work then surely the game industry can. Not throwing Nexus under the bus here but we've already seen many times where "exclusivity" has caused many projects to be lost to the void because some would rather let them die than for someone else to take over. GF or Nexus exclusives could be permanently lost unintentionally or worse either site could become the next EA/Bethesda/Nintendo that gains a monopolistic hold over the market and cripples any competitor or puts a stranglehold on usage rights. Many "good companies" went bad because the right people got pushed out and the wrong people took over. I think some people such as myself are more concerned with the potential long term consequences we've seen unfold repeatedly. A partnership would give both of you (or anyone you team up with) legal protection from those misusing "fair use" or pirating and any other tangible benefits while also offering the redundancy that some of us would like to see.

n0e wrote: Oh, don't get us wrong we would never dismiss any idea and feedback, FT was just trying to clarify the situation as it stands today. Currently we're entirely volunteer run, the site is hand built from the ground up entirely by one web developer in his spare time, for example, so where we go in the future is open to all possibilities, we read and consider every idea that comes from the modding community for how best to bring GF forward as the entire reason we spend so much of our free time to build is for you guys. :)

MadMikeyB wrote: Solo web developer mentioned above here.

Just want to add my thanks to Robin and the Nexus team for their understanding and co-operation, and I look forward to working more with you guys in the future :)

Wait a minute. The way you guys are congratulating each other I'm sensing some kinda of EA merger thing going on. You know what. Forget I said anything. I don't know what I'm talking about. This toothache medication is making me type random thoughts. Everyone go back to their exclusivity corners. Nothing to see here. Break it up.

[Deleted22658739User]

I hope they can transfer all the mod over here on Nexus Manger from Gamefront there are cool mods an hard work for them made those mods

[FelesNoctis]

In response to post #67080591. #67080751, #67080816 are all replies on the same post.

Moksha8088 wrote: That was a short-sighted decision on the part of GameFront and certainly not in the best long-term interest of their game users. A redundancy of game sources is good and as the saying goes, "it is not putting all your eggs in a single basket".

Arthmoor wrote: This wasn't Gamefront being a jackass. It was whoever the other parties are that are the jackasses.

That said, I find it ironic that you say redundancy is good since so many people have this bizarre attitude that it either goes on Nexus or nobody gets it. A situation like this could be financially very bad for Nexus and could possibly get them shut down. Then where are all those "Nexus only" mods supposed to go if people never upload anywhere else?

Dark0ne wrote: Yes, just to clarify again, this is not GameFront's fault and I understand why they've asked us to do this. It saves a lot of hassle for them and they're perfectly within their rights to do it, considering the backups are no longer required.

I'm sure some people in the community will be able to guess who might have caused these issues.

@Moksha8088
Something to also consider is that if they were to end up in a situation where they'll down again, it could essentially be a repeat of the last time: the Nexus could step in once more and offer to back things up like it did previously.

As for those Nexus Only mods, that's always seemed like such a strange concept to me. It's hard to imagine that anybody believes that actually works. Sure, maybe it acts as a deterrent on the more prominent mod-hosting locations and discourages people trying to sell someone else's content, but you'll find mods uploaded all the time to russian- chinese-/brazilian-/whatever sites without permission, there's the Wayback Machine, and methods of mod piracy are very easy to come by. Hell, I'll admit I used those resources a few times to find something important to me that had mysteriously disappeared with no explanation.

Regardless, redundancy is certainly a good thing, but the original agreement in a sense was just for archival purposes. Now that there's unscrupulous people trying to take advantage of the precedent set, things have changed. If you're incredibly concerned about losing mods that you love, you can always back them up yourself. Hell, I need to buy a new external drive for that exact reason. My current 4TB is full!

EDIT:
Oh man, and they updated their UI as well. When I stumbled across them a month or so ago their games list in the Files category wasn't even sorted alphabetically, and everything felt really clunky to navigate. Good on them! Edited January 22, 2019 by FelesNoctis

[MadMikeyB]

In response to post #67080591. #67080751, #67080816, #67085126 are all replies on the same post.

Moksha8088 wrote: That was a short-sighted decision on the part of GameFront and certainly not in the best long-term interest of their game users. A redundancy of game sources is good and as the saying goes, "it is not putting all your eggs in a single basket".

Arthmoor wrote: This wasn't Gamefront being a jackass. It was whoever the other parties are that are the jackasses.

That said, I find it ironic that you say redundancy is good since so many people have this bizarre attitude that it either goes on Nexus or nobody gets it. A situation like this could be financially very bad for Nexus and could possibly get them shut down. Then where are all those "Nexus only" mods supposed to go if people never upload anywhere else?

Dark0ne wrote: Yes, just to clarify again, this is not GameFront's fault and I understand why they've asked us to do this. It saves a lot of hassle for them and they're perfectly within their rights to do it, considering the backups are no longer required.

I'm sure some people in the community will be able to guess who might have caused these issues.

FelesNoctis wrote: @Moksha8088
Something to also consider is that if they were to end up in a situation where they'll down again, it could essentially be a repeat of the last time: the Nexus could step in once more and offer to back things up like it did previously.

As for those Nexus Only mods, that's always seemed like such a strange concept to me. It's hard to imagine that anybody believes that actually works. Sure, maybe it acts as a deterrent on the more prominent mod-hosting locations and discourages people trying to sell someone else's content, but you'll find mods uploaded all the time to russian- chinese-/brazilian-/whatever sites without permission, there's the Wayback Machine, and methods of mod piracy are very easy to come by. Hell, I'll admit I used those resources a few times to find something important to me that had mysteriously disappeared with no explanation.

Regardless, redundancy is certainly a good thing, but the original agreement in a sense was just for archival purposes. Now that there's unscrupulous people trying to take advantage of the precedent set, things have changed. If you're incredibly concerned about losing mods that you love, you can always back them up yourself. Hell, I need to buy a new external drive for that exact reason. My current 4TB is full!

EDIT:
Oh man, and they updated their UI as well. When I stumbled across them a month or so ago their games list in the Files category wasn't even sorted alphabetically, and everything felt really clunky to navigate. Good on them!

We're constantly working on improving the UI and site as a whole, really glad you noticed the changes. :)

[FelesNoctis]

In response to post #67080591. #67080751, #67080816, #67085126, #67085821 are all replies on the same post.

Moksha8088 wrote: That was a short-sighted decision on the part of GameFront and certainly not in the best long-term interest of their game users. A redundancy of game sources is good and as the saying goes, "it is not putting all your eggs in a single basket".

Arthmoor wrote: This wasn't Gamefront being a jackass. It was whoever the other parties are that are the jackasses.

That said, I find it ironic that you say redundancy is good since so many people have this bizarre attitude that it either goes on Nexus or nobody gets it. A situation like this could be financially very bad for Nexus and could possibly get them shut down. Then where are all those "Nexus only" mods supposed to go if people never upload anywhere else?

Dark0ne wrote: Yes, just to clarify again, this is not GameFront's fault and I understand why they've asked us to do this. It saves a lot of hassle for them and they're perfectly within their rights to do it, considering the backups are no longer required.

I'm sure some people in the community will be able to guess who might have caused these issues.

FelesNoctis wrote: @Moksha8088
Something to also consider is that if they were to end up in a situation where they'll down again, it could essentially be a repeat of the last time: the Nexus could step in once more and offer to back things up like it did previously.

As for those Nexus Only mods, that's always seemed like such a strange concept to me. It's hard to imagine that anybody believes that actually works. Sure, maybe it acts as a deterrent on the more prominent mod-hosting locations and discourages people trying to sell someone else's content, but you'll find mods uploaded all the time to russian- chinese-/brazilian-/whatever sites without permission, there's the Wayback Machine, and methods of mod piracy are very easy to come by. Hell, I'll admit I used those resources a few times to find something important to me that had mysteriously disappeared with no explanation.

Regardless, redundancy is certainly a good thing, but the original agreement in a sense was just for archival purposes. Now that there's unscrupulous people trying to take advantage of the precedent set, things have changed. If you're incredibly concerned about losing mods that you love, you can always back them up yourself. Hell, I need to buy a new external drive for that exact reason. My current 4TB is full!

EDIT:
Oh man, and they updated their UI as well. When I stumbled across them a month or so ago their games list in the Files category wasn't even sorted alphabetically, and everything felt really clunky to navigate. Good on them!

MadMikeyB wrote: We're constantly working on improving the UI and site as a whole, really glad you noticed the changes. :)

Oh absolutely! Sometimes the smallest changes can make the biggest impact, and things certainly feel smoother than the last time I was there, so great job! =D

EDIT:
Speaking of small things, apparently the Nexus has decided I'm not allowed to use emotes. Blah! Edited January 22, 2019 by FelesNoctis

[triptherift]

It was kind of cool having my oldskool GF mods I had made in the past on Nexus for awhile lol. Thanks guys, and congrats to GF for getting their site back up. Edited January 23, 2019 by triptherift

[Kurnn]

Sure, companies needs to do hard calls every now and then, but seriously, GameFront could just say a big FU to any site that steals their product, without asking them.

 

As I understand it, GameFront came to nexus....not the other way around. Nexus has what 100.000 mods? And 20.000 active users a week?

Not a single mod site in the world even comes close.....Not one! Not even Bethesdas own Mod selling store.

 

I have nothing bad to say about the nexus staff. I dont even know what they do, but this site is here, growing, adding more content to the BIGGEST smash hit games in the industry.....along with a bunch of other games.

 

Nexus is the reason why brilliant players creates tools like Xedit, LOOT, Mator Smash, DynLODON, FNIS and even an Outfit studio.

These tools aren't some half baked try from a player to make some UI and have a feature to help mods.

 

These tools are on par with high end Server System tools and complexed software debugging and creation tools.

For FREE, with groups of people standing in line to help develop everything that players gets for free!

 

The nexus staff didn't do any tools, or mods, or teached players how to add content to games or enginee fixes etc.

The nexus is the Golden City in the vast Gaming wasteland . Where players, modders, leaders, artists, storytellers and people with nothing else then a huge freakin imagination.......all gathers here.

 

Nexus is one of the few major game sites that even have a functional forum/post system. TEXT post share info and discussions with thousands......instead of just the 20 who happen to be online in a chat program at the same time.

 

Gamefront, you lack the backbone to become anything bigger then what you are!

 

You have LOST, the best site to spread your products, the best way to gain the reputation you need, in order to sell big.

You made a short-term call, to avoid drama and bad reputation for not letting leacher sites, have the same conditions as

THE LARGES MOD COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD. FOR FREE!

 

I have been working in high-end IT Business for 20 years, and this call by Gamefront makes my top-10 list of moronic choices by "medium" sized companies, who always ends up getting aquired by the companies who made the opposite choices.

 

Pathetic.

 

Nexus staff, you rock.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Kurnn

[FileTrekker]

In response to post #67087281.

Kurnn wrote: Sure, companies needs to do hard calls every now and then, but seriously, GameFront could just say a big FU to any site that steals their product, without asking them.

As I understand it, GameFront came to nexus....not the other way around. Nexus has what 100.000 mods? And 20.000 active users a week?
Not a single mod site in the world even comes close.....Not one! Not even Bethesdas own Mod selling store.

I have nothing bad to say about the nexus staff. I dont even know what they do, but this site is here, growing, adding more content to the BIGGEST smash hit games in the industry.....along with a bunch of other games.

Nexus is the reason why brilliant players creates tools like Xedit, LOOT, Mator Smash, DynLODON, FNIS and even an Outfit studio.
These tools aren't some half baked try from a player to make some UI and have a feature to help mods.

These tools are on par with high end Server System tools and complexed software debugging and creation tools.
For FREE, with groups of people standing in line to help develop everything that players gets for free!

The nexus staff didn't do any tools, or mods, or teached players how to add content to games or enginee fixes etc.
The nexus is the Golden City in the vast Gaming wasteland . Where players, modders, leaders, artists, storytellers and people with nothing else then a huge freakin imagination.......all gathers here.

Nexus is one of the few major game sites that even have a functional forum/post system. TEXT post share info and discussions with thousands......instead of just the 20 who happen to be online in a chat program at the same time.

Gamefront, you lack the backbone to become anything bigger then what you are!

You have LOST, the best site to spread your products, the best way to gain the reputation you need, in order to sell big.
You made a short-term call, to avoid drama and bad reputation for not letting leacher sites, have the same conditions as
THE LARGES MOD COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD. FOR FREE!

I have been working in high-end IT Business for 20 years, and this call by Gamefront makes my top-10 list of moronic choices by "medium" sized companies, who always ends up getting aquired by the companies who made the opposite choices.

Pathetic.

Nexus staff, you rock.

I'm sorry you feel that way. We're not a medium sized company though, we're just a handful of volunteers who built the site entirely for free. Just me, one web developer who does it entirely in his spare time, and a handful of other oldbies also doing it for free. We love Nexus too, incidentally and we have no issues here. We don't make or sell products, our site is as Nexus' is user generated and it's entirely for free to the end user. We're two peas in a pod in that respect.

Hope this helps.

Danny