Kendo 2 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Debater #1: "Guns are good, everyone should be allowed to own one."Debater #2: "Guns are bad, no one should own one. You're being illogical." OR Debater #1: "Guns are bad, no one should own one."Debater #2: "Guns are good, everyone should be allowed to own one. You're being illogical." It's subjective and trundled out like the Golden Calf that we should all bow down and pay homage to JUST because someone said it. One debater might think owning a handgun is perfectly reasonable and another will think it isn't. Whatever, they are both right and wrong at the same time but those are THEIR opinions and they are entiltled to them. I don't think anyone really acknowledges these self-appointed Kommisars of Logic has having dominion over what is or is not 'logical' anyway. I can guarantee on daily basis the members who fall back on the 'logic' angle personally believe in illogical things. They are Capitalist/Communist, Religious/Atheist, etc. They only pander that pablum here because they THINK people will fall for it. It is no longer possible to 'win' a debate in this section, no matter what people might think when they post and believe they 'really put the other guy/gal in his/her place'. Half truths and biased opinions. There is no debating involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Those that simply express opinions, are generally called on it. Granted, this is NOT what I would really consider a 'debate' forum..... more like the argument clinic..... So, my question becomes, if you can't win, and you don't care for the way things are going here, and offer no solutions, why participate at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) Debater #1: "Guns are good, everyone should be allowed to own one."Debater #2: "Guns are bad, no one should own one. You're being illogical." OR Debater #1: "Guns are bad, no one should own one."Debater #2: "Guns are good, everyone should be allowed to own one. You're being illogical." Those are simply opinions. A hypothesis even. At that point, no argumentative reasoning has been put forward yet. Once that happens you can point out whether the argument is using false reasoning or is illogical. even if those things are employed in the argument, it doesn't make the hypothesis false, it just makes the argument an invalid route to prove it. Edited July 27, 2012 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It's the CliffsNotes version of page after page of pointless back and forth between opposing factions. It isn't the fictious exchange in its entirety. 'You're being illogical' can be replaced with 'You're an idiot', 'STFU', 'My mommy says I'm special so you must agree with me', etc. It is used in the same fashion by some posters and carries as much weight now. Whatever credibility 'logic' had for the purposes of these monkey dung fights called 'debates' was lost long ago. It's kinda like facts. It simply doesn't have a place here. Aaand I'm not falling for it. :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It's the CliffsNotes version of page after page of pointless back and forth between opposing factions. It isn't the fictious exchange in its entirety. 'You're being illogical' can be replaced with 'You're an idiot', 'STFU', 'My mommy says I'm special so you must agree with me', etc. It is used in the same fashion by some posters and carries as much weight now. Whatever credibility 'logic' had for the purposes of these monkey dung fights called 'debates' was lost long ago. It's kinda like facts. It simply doesn't have a place here.Perhaps it has been used as such. There is difference between 'You're and idiot' 'STFU' etc to pointing out if something is illogical, one can be demonstrated to be the case and the others are basically attacks that do not in anyway refute the others position. I disagree with your opinion if you are suggesting it can always be replaced with and <insert ad hominem of choice>, sometimes something can be demonstrably illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 There isn't any 'perhaps' to it. It has been used to fortify an unmitigated fabrication on more than one occasion. It isn't your fault. People see your success and they bank on snippits from your posts to vaildate theirs. The unfortunate result is the average debates threads viewer simply blowing past posts where they see any form of the word 'logic'. And I'll have to disagree that it cannot be used as a catch-all rebutal. The users who have done it in the past don't have any foundation for the context. 'That isn't logical' = 'Yeah, yur Momma.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 In reference to this forum> mudslinging, pseudo intellectuals etc... In reference to me in this forum> "People see your success.." *sadface* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 There isn't any 'perhaps' to it. It has been used to fortify an unmitigated fabrication on more than one occasion. It isn't your fault. People see your success and they bank on snippits from your posts to vaildate theirs. The unfortunate result is the average debates threads viewer simply blowing past posts where they see any form of the word 'logic'. And I'll have to disagree that it cannot be used as a catch-all rebutal. The users who have done it in the past don't have any foundation for the context. 'That isn't logical' = 'Yeah, yur Momma.' I am just kinda curious what it is you are attempting to accomplish here? Aside from alienating most of the folks that post on the Debates forum...... I have seen a lot of complaints, some have merit, some are simply painting everyone here with the same brush. What I HAVEN'T seen is, do you offer any solutions? Or, are you just coming in here to vent? Or is there something else on your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Aside from alienating most of the folks that post on the Debates forum...... I have seen a lot of complaints, some have merit, some are simply painting everyone here with the same brush. What I HAVEN'T seen is, do you offer any solutions? Or, are you just coming in here to vent? Or is there something else on your mind? Quod erat demonstrandum...And here was me thinking that Debates was open to everyone who cared to post. You appear to be suggesting that there is some kind of clique of "folks that post on the Debates Forum" and that others don't have the right to come in and participate. Which kind of proves exactly what Kendo was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) Aside from alienating most of the folks that post on the Debates forum...... I have seen a lot of complaints, some have merit, some are simply painting everyone here with the same brush. What I HAVEN'T seen is, do you offer any solutions? Or, are you just coming in here to vent? Or is there something else on your mind? Quod erat demonstrandum...And here was me thinking that Debates was open to everyone who cared to post. You appear to be suggesting that there is some kind of clique of "folks that post on the Debates Forum" and that others don't have the right to come in and participate. Which kind of proves exactly what Kendo was saying. Thank You for misinterpreting that. Kendo has not been that active in the debates section until lately, that I have noticed.... When I DO see him posting, it is in this thread, handing out judgements like candy at a parade. Condemning the whole lot of folks that post here, with blanket statements, offering nothing in return as to solutions, or ways to mitigate the current situation. So, I ask a question. Why. I don't see where I have denied anyone anything here. Please do not read more into my posts, than what is actually IN my posts. Edited July 27, 2012 by HeyYou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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