HeyYou Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Every point has validity, but, just becomes someones point is valid, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Should I not defend my opinions? Shall I bow to someone that has a valid point, just because it IS valid? Does someone else having a valid point, make mine INvalid?? For example: Sure, banning assault weapons altogether has the real possibility of reducing crimes committed with them, and that is a valid stance. Shall I change my opinion on what my constitutional rights are, based on that? If your answer is 'yes', I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree. Shall I bow to someone that has a valid point, just because it IS valid? I'm gonna go with YES. It shows good sportsmanship and demonstrates the ability to 'be wrong' and admit it. Goes back to 'right at any cost'. I have zero desire to exclude anyone that wants to participate. The more the merrier. ESPECIALLY those that can present themselves in coherent manner, and back up what they say with facts, or legal precedent, or whatever the situation calls for at the time. In all reality, I would LOVE to see MORE folks contributing here. We have an extremely wide selection of folks, from many different walks of life, all with one common denominator, we are all gamers to one degree or another. So, we all have at least one thing in common. Perhaps we should concentrate more on that? I would LOVE to see MORE folks contributing here. Yet the 'I'm not willing to surrender the point' attitude prevents just that. Erm, Please see the example I cited. I do not concede that just because someone has a valid point, it makes mine "wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintii Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 @ HeyYou ... I understand what you're saying, I too would not abandon my point because another has a valid point ... but in the debates forum it is seldom publicly recognised or stated that your opponent has a validpoint because it might be seen as a defeat.This gives the impression that nothing is ever being achieved in the debate except the continual "loop" of the "US and Them" struggle ... hence the title of this topic, "Are debates ever won".It's ok to say that I've learned something ... it doesn't mean I'm weak ... and I can still validate my arguement or stance even while recognising your point. Instead we sometimes stick to our guns at the expense of honesty ... and out comes the mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 @ HeyYou ... I understand what you're saying, I too would not abandon my point because another has a valid point ... but in the debates forum it is seldom publicly recognised or stated that your opponent has a validpoint because it might be seen as a defeat.This gives the impression that nothing is ever being achieved in the debate except the continual "loop" of the "US and Them" struggle ... hence the title of this topic, "Are debates ever won".It's ok to say that I've learned something ... it doesn't mean I'm weak ... and I can still validate my arguement or stance even while recognising your point. Instead we sometimes stick to our guns at the expense of honesty ... and out comes the mud. AHA!!! Ok, now I think some light is dawning at the end of the tunnel. (let's hope it's not simply a muzzle flash....) So, the main point of contention here, is that I/we don't ACKNOWLEDGE that someone has a valid point?? (I am still rather confused on just who "we" are though...... I wasn't aware that I had teamed up with anyone to shut out anyone else. My apologies if folks got that impression, it certainly wasn't intentional.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Good GRIEF. :facepalm: Whatever. Thanks for proving my point, HeyYou. RIGHT AT ANY COST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintii Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 @ HeyYou ... Oh c'mon, surely you can see that I'm generalising when I say "we", it goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Ok, so, that wasn't it either then. Well, tell ya what, I am just going to give up on this whole line of convo, as I am evidently missing something significant here. Either that, or, some folks just want me to admit that I am "wrong" on my opinion. Unless/Until someone gives me a VALID reason why I should do so, (and no, I don't think "sportsmanship" qualifies) I will continue to defend my positions. Thank You for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Well, so much for 'we gotta fix the debate threads'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintii Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Ok, so, that wasn't it either then. Well, tell ya what, I am just going to give up on this whole line of convo, as I am evidently missing something significant here. Either that, or, some folks just want me to admit that I am "wrong" on my opinion. Unless/Until someone gives me a VALID reason why I should do so, (and no, I don't think "sportsmanship" qualifies) I will continue to defend my positions. Thank You for your time. Play nice ... I'm not saying that you have to admit you're "wrong" just don't get so caught up with being "right" ... and it's ok to be RIGHT ... you're not in a war HeyYou ... it's not a loss of pride to recognise a "facet" or "element" of truth from the opponent ... do you really have to be such a "he man" that you cannot at least see something of value AND MENTION IT.Or are all men secretly like the Orc in the Markath dungeon who supposedly ripped someones arm off and then proceeded to beat them to death with it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Unless/Until someone gives me a VALID reason why I should do so, (and no, I don't think "sportsmanship" qualifies) I will continue to defend my positions. Oh, I don't know...how about...I have zero desire to exclude anyone that wants to participate. The more the merrier. ESPECIALLY those that can present themselves in coherent manner, and back up what they say with facts, or legal precedent, or whatever the situation calls for at the time. In all reality, I would LOVE to see MORE folks contributing here. We have an extremely wide selection of folks, from many different walks of life, all with one common denominator, we are all gamers to one degree or another. So, we all have at least one thing in common. Perhaps we should concentrate more on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisnpuppy Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Sometimes it is about...not which side of a "debate" is "right" but who has argued their side better. That...in a true debate....would be the one declared the winner. Not your own opinion of the topic at hand....but how well the other person had put together their argument...did it have good structure and flow...was it backed up with objective and readily identifiable information....was it concise and to the point. A person that judges formal debates does not vote their conscious....but rather they vote the significance of the argument itself. Sometimes also...its ok to agree to disagree and move the heck on. Instead of beating the poor dead horse or making little one-line comments. I said many moons ago...this is not and perhaps shouldn't be....a place for a "perfect debate." Most would rather share an opinion. I say we rename the place to "Strongly-Held Opinions" thread or (and yes I have been swayed now to another view) get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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