"Invalid group rules" Bell Icon Error Message... just go away please (Image inside)

[HadToRegister]

 

 

 

I must say your stance on allowing LOOT (mostly) total control over your load order is quite possibly the only time I've encountered this opinion. Most times I read stuff posted like: "people place too much trust in LOOT being able to properly sort their LO", or even the extreme: "LOOT doesn't sort my LO right, I have to do it manually", etc. Even Gopher, as reserved as he is, states to sort with LOOT first, then manually tweak if necessary.

 

I think the problem with LOOT is it's Masterlist doesn't contain data on all the mods out there (not by a long shot!), and as such, all these mods not included in the Masterlist have no sort data assigned to them. This is one example where manually manipulating LO becomes necessary. Another is where the sort data of a plugin, in relation to other plugins' sort data, is out-of-whack, or just plain wrong.

 

 

Final point I would make again is, why would Tannin and the Vortex Team put in place the ability to assign plugins to "Groups", the "Manage Rules" and "Manage Groups" functionalities, and the ability to assign "Dependencies", if they didn't intend for us to use them (within reason) for manual sorting? Seems stupid to me they'd put these functionalities in place, just to have an Error Message pop-up (that you can't dismiss) whenever you use them (or atleast the "Groups" one).

 

 

I must say your stance on allowing LOOT (mostly) total control over your load order is quite possibly the only time I've encountered this opinion. Most times I read stuff posted like: "people place too much trust in LOOT being able to properly sort their LO", or even the extreme: "LOOT doesn't sort my LO right, I have to do it manually", etc. Even Gopher, as reserved as he is, states to sort with LOOT first, then manually tweak if necessary.

My point EXACTLY, and also Gopher's point. TWEAK, nothing more.

I'll let loot sort my load order, but there's a plugin or two that needs to go in a specific spot in my load order (Scrap Everything) (Asis Dependency) then I will assign those TWO plugins to a group.

I'm not assigning EVERY SINGLE PLUGIN to a Group, because that's unnecessary and just makes for extra work.

 

DO NOT Compare your load order with Vortex Loot then with standalone LOOT.

 

Also - I've found that People who constantly claim to "Never trust..." are people I don't ever listen to, because they "Never trust ANYTHING"

They delete their cookies every session then complain they have to manually login to a website every single time etc, they shoot themselves in the foot more often than not.

 

The people who say "LOOT doesn't sort my LO right, I have to do it manually" are the ones who come from NMM and INSIST on manually sorting their LO because they read some stupid guide and think they know better than Loot does, and those people will never change, they're never going to admit Loot works, and will insist on doing it themselves and wrecking their game and then blaming their mod manager.

 

 

Final point I would make again is, why would Tannin and the Vortex Team put in place the ability to assign plugins to "Groups", the "Manage Rules" and "Manage Groups" functionalities, and the ability to assign "Dependencies", if they didn't intend for us to use them (within reason) for manual sorting? Seems stupid to me they'd put these functionalities in place, just to have an Error Message pop-up (that you can't dismiss) whenever you use them (or atleast the "Groups" one).

 

Because they're meant for Manual TWEAKING, not for Manually Sorting the entire load order.

If you're getting crazy error messages, then most likely you have gone overboard with how many Plugins you have assigned to groups, Again, you don't have to assigne every single plugin to a group, only assign the ones that NEED to be assigned to a group in order to TWEAK, not MANAGE your load order.

 

Just like a turntable with a strobe light, you use the adjustment wheel to TWEAK the speed of the turntable so it plays the record at the correct pitch and speed, sure you CAN adjust the speed of the turntable too fast or too slow, but WHY would you do that and what would be the point, because the record would be playing the wrong pitch and speed.

 

Tweak = moving 1 or 2 plugins to the correct spot

Manage = trying to manage your entire load order and forcing plugins to go where YOU want them.

[ThelebKaarna]

I think we're saying the same thing here. As I said, I run LOOT first, then tweak ONLY if necessary. And as I said, I've only had to manually adjust my load order for 13 plugins out of 299. Again, I've only assigned 8 plugins to groups and 5 I've given Dependencies to. That's it. Unsure where you're getting "manually sorting my entire load order" or "assigning every single plugin to a Group" from. Never said I was doing either of those.

 

Edit: per your comment: "DO NOT Compare your load order with Vortex Loot then with standalone LOOT", please see my last comment on page one.

[HadToRegister]

I think we're saying the same thing here. As I said, I run LOOT first, then tweak ONLY if necessary. And as I said, I've only had to manually adjust my load order for 13 plugins out of 299. Again, I've only assigned 8 plugins to groups and 5 I've given Dependencies to. That's it. Unsure where you're getting "manually sorting my entire load order" from. Never said I was doing that.

 

Edit: per your comment: "DO NOT Compare your load order with Vortex Loot then with standalone LOOT", please see my last comment on page one.

 

Your initial post had me believing you were overusing the Group feature, and to me it sounded like you were assigning every plugin to a group (I expect some people will because they just 'have to')

My apologies if I assumed too much.

 

As far as the original post goes, if you're getting that invalid group rules, then the easy fix is to just look at your plugins list and remove those plugins from those groups, although, honestly, I ran into that error message before and tried to do that, and I swear the groups were still there in the drop down list and it resolved itself because of it.

I think it took shutting down vortex and restarting it.

 

Either that, or my memory is bad, which is a possibility.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

i won't change my stance on using loot externally to vortex because doing so is a fool's errand and simply not the correct thing to do.

 

Judging by your comment you didn't read my post thoroughly. I'm not "using" LOOT outside of Vortex. I'm simply opening it to double-check for errors Vortex might miss, then closing it. That's it. No harm in that (actually it's proven to be useful). I'm not clicking "sort" in external LOOT, or anything else.

 

And I won't read too much into your "fool's errand" comment. Let's keep it civil.

 

fool's errand is in no way an insult. look at the meaning and the context. the act is the fool's errand not the person performing the act. in this case, using loot externally to vortex when there is absolutely no need to do so.

[ThelebKaarna]

Thanks HTR, appreciate your comments as always. I've relaunched Vortex a couple times this morning and so far the message hasn't returned. In the future if it persists and gets annoying, I'll re-examine my Groups and consolidate/eliminate wherever I can.

 

Thanks again for all your input, in this thread and elsewhere=)

[ThelebKaarna]

 

 

i won't change my stance on using loot externally to vortex because doing so is a fool's errand and simply not the correct thing to do.

 

Judging by your comment you didn't read my post thoroughly. I'm not "using" LOOT outside of Vortex. I'm simply opening it to double-check for errors Vortex might miss, then closing it. That's it. No harm in that (actually it's proven to be useful). I'm not clicking "sort" in external LOOT, or anything else.

 

And I won't read too much into your "fool's errand" comment. Let's keep it civil.

 

fool's errand is in no way an insult. look at the meaning and the context. the act is the fool's errand not the person performing the act. in this case, using loot externally to vortex when there is absolutely no need to do so.

 

 

Sure dude, whatever you say.

[Guest deleted34304850]

now who needs to keep it civil?

 

i read the link you posted, i didn't see any reason to change my mind that i would need to do any external actions when vortex does it all for me. just as you can do what you want, i can do the same.

 

It is written in several places not to use Loot externally, I go with that advice as it comes from the guys behind the tool. They know better than me.

 

You are free to do as you want and do as many external checks as you need. If it makes you happy, then more power to you. it is still a fool's errand. (look it up).

[HadToRegister]

To clear this up

"Fool's errand" isn't an insult towards a person, it's a term for "a task or activity that has no hope of success."

It's NOT calling anybody a 'fool'

[ThelebKaarna]

To clear this up

 

"Fool's errand" isn't an insult towards a person, it's a term for "a task or activity that has no hope of success."

 

It's NOT calling anybody a 'fool'

 

 

 

No, it's OK. I'm a fool. Freely admit.

 

And for the record, I never thought 1ae0bfb8 was calling me a fool. Just hoping to prevent the potential of this thread going off-the-rails (oops).

[ThelebKaarna]

"now who needs to keep it civil?"

 

You're right, I'm an a**hole, sorry.

 

 

 

"i read the link you posted, i didn't see any reason to change my mind that i would need to do any external actions when vortex does it all for me. just as you can do what you want, i can do the same".

 

Really? When external LOOT finds an error that Vortex's internal LOOT misses, that isn't "any reason"? It's reason for me I guess, but to each their own.

 

 

 

"It is written in several places not to use Loot externally, I go with that advice as it comes from the guys behind the tool. They know better than me".

 

I agree with the "guys behind the tool" as well. "Using" both internal & external LOOT to attempt to sort your LO (or other actions) will yield you different results, particularly if you've set "Rules" within Vortex. So one last time, I'm not "using LOOT outside of Vortex". Don't know how I can drive this point any more home. I'm "referencing" LOOT outside of Vortex as a means of double-checking for errors.... errors I have personally found Vortex misses. That's it. I'm not doing any "external actions" in external LOOT. Just looking inside, double-checking, then closing it.

 

 

 

"You are free to do as you want and do as many external checks as you need. If it makes you happy, then more power to you. it is still a fool's errand. (look it up)".

 

You're right! And if you're content to just single-check and don't want to be bothered with double-checking and that works for you, then more power to you! In my mind that's the true.... nope. Not gonna say it :tongue: