Dawnguard Vampire Attacks = Game Killer?

[swiftfoxmark2]

Klimmeck and Narfi both met their deaths to vampires. No big deal, I just took credit for Narfi's demise from the Nazir and had already finished the other tasks related to both NPCs.

 

Don't fast travel at night is all I can say.

[Sky999]

Then how do you explain the multitude of times when we've arrived in cells and found a body lying dead? It's happened across multiple play throughs on multiple platforms.

The person did last time you were in the cell, bodies take awhile to get cleaned up.

 

When I fast travel from an area to another area and I don't expect to come back and find someone dead that was literally sitting on the porch in front of me before I fast traveled (Alford or whatever the hell the smith is in Riverwood)

 

Regardless of the "official" explanation, it doesn't change the fact that NPC's are dying from other NPC's without my interaction.

 

What official explanation? Have the developers even responded to this ridiculous game killing implementation?

[sajuukkhar9000]

When I fast travel from an area to another area and I don't expect to come back and find someone dead that was literally sitting on the porch in front of me before I fast traveled (Alford or whatever the hell the smith is in Riverwood)

 

Regardless of the "official" explanation, it doesn't change the fact that NPC's are dying from other NPC's without my interaction.

That isn't an "official explanation" that's how the damn game works, anyone who knows the games mechanics can tell you NPCs do not, and can not, be killed unless you are in the same cell as them.

 

Furthermore this feature is not "game breaking" because the term game breaking implies the game cannot be completed without those people, which it can, since all main quest NPCs are essential.

 

FURTHERMORE, NPCs die from other NPCs all the time such a dragon attacks on cities, and random thief attacks in Riften. All of which cannot occur unless you are in the same cell.

 

Its called making the game more difficult, something people wanted, and complained that they wanted, a lot.

 

Also, in 40+ hours of gameplay, I have yet to have ONE NPC die from vampire attacks, seriously the vampires are so easy to kill that if they are managing to take out NPCs your doing something wrong.

Edited August 6, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Stemin]

That isn't an "official explanation" that's how the damn game works, anyone who knows the games mechanics can tell you NPCs do not, and can not, be killed unless you are in the same cell as them.

 

I don't know what the attitude is for, and I don't really care. Even if that is how the game is supposed to work, it's a Bethesda game, so what makes you think it's working properly? Like I tried to say the the first time. I don't care WHY it's happening, it's happening to me and many other players over and over again.

 

Furthermore this feature is not "game breaking" because the term game breaking implies the game cannot be completed without those people, which it can, since all main quest NPCs are essential.

 

I never once said it was "game breaking." I happen to despise the term.

 

FURTHERMORE, NPCs die from other NPCs all the time such a dragon attacks on cities, and random thief attacks in Riften. All of which cannot occur unless you are in the same cell.

 

Its called making the game more difficult, something people wanted, and complained that they wanted, a lot.

 

It doesn't do anything to the difficulty. What it does is remove NPC's in a game where you spend hundreds of hours playing. It makes the game less interesting.

 

Also, in 40+ hours of gameplay, I have yet to have ONE NPC die from vampire attacks, seriously the vampires are so easy to kill that if they are managing to take out NPCs your doing something wrong.

 

I'm happy for you. What does this do for the rest of us?

[Stemin]

What official explanation? Have the developers even responded to this ridiculous game killing implementation?

 

I have no idea. I didn't mean it like that. He was trying to tell me how "the game works." But I've seen too many examples of NPC's dying and I don't really care how it's supposed to work. For all practical purposes it doesn't work.

 

And these were all pre dawnguard. Now we have vampires to worry about on top of random NPC deaths that could or could not have been caused by dragons.

[sajuukkhar9000]

I don't know what the attitude is for, and I don't really care. Even if that is how the game is supposed to work, it's a Bethesda game, so what makes you think it's working properly? Like I tried to say the the first time. I don't care WHY it's happening, it's happening to me and many other players over and over again.

Its something that literally can't break, its part of the engine itself. When you are not in the same cell NPCs get "stored" away, they cant be harmed, or killed.

 

Its only when you enter the cell are the NPCs loaded. You HAD to be in the same cell, and thus in a position to stop the vampire attack, for them to be able to die in the first place.

I never once said it was "game breaking." I happen to despise the term.

This is a thread whose title says the vamp attacks are game breaking, so I assumed since you were agreeing with everyone else that you found them game breaking also.

It doesn't do anything to the difficulty. What it does is remove NPC's in a game where you spend hundreds of hours playing. It makes the game less interesting.

How is making Vampire attacks that you have to stop unless you want NPCs to die not adding to the difficulty? It makes you actually HAVE to work to keep the world safe.

 

Also how is NPCs that you either

A. Already finished the quest for

B. Have no quest, and thus no content at all, related to them

Being kill make the game world less interesting? You weren't doing anything with them anyways.

I'm happy for you. What does this do for the rest of us?

It called learn to play the game, and be more observant of your surroundings and NPCs wont die?

Edited August 7, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Stemin]

Its something that literally can't break, its part of the engine itself. When you are not in the same cell NPCs get "stored" away, they cant be harmed, or killed.

 

Its only when you enter the cell are the NPCs loaded. You HAD to be in the same cell, and thus in a position to stop the vampire attack, for them to be able to die in the first place.

 

"Can't break" Uhhuh.

 

Also, you clearly missed the part where we were discussing dragon attacks, pre-dawnguard.

 

This is a thread whose title says the vamp attacks are game breaking, so I assumed since you were agreeing with everyone else that you found them game breaking also.

 

Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions and actually read the thread.

 

How is making Vampire attacks that you have to stop unless you want NPCs to die not adding to the difficulty? It makes you actually HAVE to work to keep the world safe.

 

What part of that contributes to the difficulty of the game? As you keep pointing out, they're non-essential in the first place, so whether or not they die has no game-related consequences. Therefore they do nothing to add or take away from the difficulty.

 

Also how is NPCs that you either

A. Already finished the quest for

B. Have no quest, and thus no content at all, related to them

Being kill make the game world less interesting? You weren't doing anything with them anyways.

 

It's called environment. And an empty town doesn't have one.

It called learn to play the game, and be more observant of your surroundings and NPCs wont die?

 

Except as we already established, I don't even have to be aware that the vampires have attacked. I could be in a completely different part of the city. I can't be bothered to make a sweep around the whole town every time I'm ready to leave. That's just ignorant.

[sajuukkhar9000]

"Can't break" Uhhuh.

 

Also, you clearly missed the part where we were discussing dragon attacks, pre-dawnguard.

It can't, because cells don't load until you are in them, they are stored in a buffer zone until you get in them,really it seems like you have no understanding about how the game works at all.

 

And no I didn't miss the mention of dragons, i make a comment on your reference to it. The Vampire attacks, much like Dragon attacks are EASILY stoppable, and a even half decent character can get through them with 0 NPC deaths.

 

I once had two legendary dragons attack dawnstar at the same time...... no reloads.... no NPCs death. Really it isn't that hard to stop both Dragon and Vampire attacks.

Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions and actually read the thread.

Considering I have been on the thrad since post 5, and you made no mention of not liking the word game killer, I have been reading this thread, and I had no way of knowing you didnt like it.

 

Make your thoughts more clear next time, K?

What part of that contributes to the difficulty of the game? As you keep pointing out, they're non-essential in the first place, so whether or not they die has no game-related consequences. Therefore they do nothing to add or take away from the difficulty.

What part of it isn't?

 

People want NPCs to stay alive, Vampire attacks cause NPCs to die, having to work to keep NPCs alive more difficulty then before, as NPCs almost never died unless by the players hand.

 

How is that difficult to understand?

It's called environment. And an empty town doesn't have one.

Except it does, it has an environment of a dead and destroyed town caused by you, the player character's, failures. It gives one a sense of sadness over the loss of life, and the dread knowing that it could happen anywhere.

Except as we already established, I don't even have to be aware that the vampires have attacked. I could be in a completely different part of the city. I can't be bothered to make a sweep around the whole town every time I'm ready to leave. That's just ignorant.

Considering NPCs will run to attack the vampires you don't have to make a sweep of the city, even a cursory glance of the surrounding can tell you if there's a vamp attack on the other side of town.

Edited August 7, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[gsmanners]

It's called environment. And an empty town doesn't have one.

Except it does, it has an environment of a dead and destroyed town caused by you, the player character's, failures. It gives one a sense of sadness over the loss of life, and the dread knowing that it could happen anywhere.

 

So, when Mercer tries to kill you, that's your fault? Brillant! :hurr:

 

Face it. It is game breaking, and those specious deflections and misattributions have been countered.

 

They injected random dragons that break your game, a random thief that breaks your game (but just in Riften and Riverwood), and now a more effective band of vampires that break your game. All because Bethesda cannot design the game with a consistent purpose. Are we supposed to have fun or are we supposed to be annoyed and take offense? It isn't clear to me what their objective was in designing it this way.

[Stemin]

It can't, because cells don't load until you are in them, they are stored in a buffer zone until you get in them,really it seems like you have no understanding about how the game works at all.

 

It's become clear to me that you're not really interested in actual logic, you're only interested in winning an argument. I'm not going to put up with it much longer before I just decide to put you on my ignore list.

 

NPC's can clearly cross zones. You can watch dragons do it all the time. And these scripts have clearly been tightened up since release to optimize the game. You used to be able to watch the dragon from Bonestrewn Crest from _many_ surrounding zones. Now you must be extremely close to be able to see him flying around.

 

I'm not arrogant enough to claim I know more about the game's code than you, but claiming something is unbreakable is point blank: Laughable. Everything is capable of breaking.

 

Barring that, like I said before, it doesn't matter how something is intended to work, if it's not working that was in a practical sense.

 

And no I didn't miss the mention of dragons, i make a comment on your reference to it. The Vampire attacks, much like Dragon attacks are EASILY stoppable, and a even half decent character can get through them with 0 NPC deaths.

 

I once had two legendary dragons attack dawnstar at the same time...... no reloads.... no NPCs death. Really it isn't that hard to stop both Dragon and Vampire attacks.

 

I like how you apply something from your personal experience and use that as evidence of your point, but when I can point out countless examples from my experience and other gamers, you borderline call me a liar and say it doesn't work that way.

 

Regardless, the idea that everyone should play like you is again, laughable, and was clearly not Bethesda's intent when they designed the game.

 

I would also call your statement blatently false. It's statistically impossible to predict how or what NPC's are in the area or what position you're in when they do attack without specifically scripting the events to work that way. Since dragons don't only attack at the same spot when x number of npc's are in the area, I'll go out on a limb and say they're NOT scripted that way. Which means its impossible to predict that you're going to end up with zero deaths on a regular basis. My countless number of reloads also verifies this.

 

Considering I have been on the thrad since post 5, and you made no mention of not liking the word game killer, I have been reading this thread, and I had no way of knowing you didnt like it.

 

Make your thoughts more clear next time, K?

 

So you just arbitrarily applied that assumption to me. That makes even less sense. Making assumptions is just one more logical fallacy.

 

Why don't I just claim that since you claim intimate knowledge of the game's engine and are defending the game that you work for Bethesda and are therefore bias?

 

Because I don't know that so I shouldn't be running my mouth about things I don't know.

 

What part of it isn't?

 

People want NPCs to stay alive, Vampire attacks cause NPCs to die, having to work to keep NPCs alive more difficulty then before, as NPCs almost never died unless by the players hand.

 

How is that difficult to understand?

 

I should have stopped you at "People want NPCs to stay alive." That's another assumption, and a dumb one. There are kids out there that go out of their way to depopulate towns and get mad when they encounter an essential.

 

You can't apply something that's not essential to the game's objectives as being part of the difficulty. That's an opinion sir, not a fact. Like I said before, YOU are the one who pointed out they are non essential, so if I don't care about having NPC's die, the difficulty is removed.

 

Except it does, it has an environment of a dead and destroyed town caused by you, the player character's, failures. It gives one a sense of sadness over the loss of life, and the dread knowing that it could happen anywhere.

 

That's roleplaying bs, and once again you apply your own expectations of the game to someone else's gameplay. Not everyone does or should play like you do.

 

Considering NPCs will run to attack the vampires you don't have to make a sweep of the city, even a cursory glance of the surrounding can tell you if there's a vamp attack on the other side of town.

 

And again, evidence says otherwise. Like I said about the dragons, these are random events. There's no guarantees what NPC's will be in the area, how many, what level the vampires will be etc.

 

It's already been established that many NPC's levels are established by what level you enter the zone. Can you guarantee the same is said for the vampires that make random attacks? I started Dawnguard on my level 81.5 character. These Vampires aren't "tough" for me in the traditional sense, but they do take a long time to take down. I find it very hard to believe they're the same level as the other NPC's in Whiterun for example, particularly since I watched them die.

 

There are also other factors such as when you use a carry weight potion to fast travel while over encumbered and you can't attack quickly upon arrival.

 

It goes back to what I've said several times now. Not everyone plays like you do. That's the whole reason mods exist, why some people love the game and some people hate it, and basically why Bethesda did away with the mandatory classes to begin with.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Stemin