djinx187 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Pretty much the same thing happens if you choose the Imperials. They will convene a moot, and it will be forced to accept Elisif as High Queen. At least she didn't kill her husband for it though :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Pretty much the same thing happens if you choose the Imperials. They will convene a moot, and it will be forced to accept Elisif as High Queen. At least she didn't kill her husband for it though :P Our morals in this world are not the same as the morals of Skyrim. Ulfric killed the king in a fair fight that was a Nord tradition. People keep saying that Ulfric just want to be king, but what about the Empire? What do they want? To rule over a country that wants them to leave? Not much different. This is another civil war debate that will probably go 30 pages. They are annoying because there isn't supposed to be a right side. The story was written so the player could join either side and feel right since right and wrong just depend on who you chose to be loyal to. Since I chose Ulfric, he sounds like a patriot, but if he was my enemy, he wouldn't. Even as a Stormcloak, I still think Tullius sounds like a patriot of the Empire, because neither side is evil. Any proof that someone offers in accusing that on side is evil is just hearsay evidence and a bunch of bull because Bethesda did not intend to make either side evil at all. It is very clear that both sides are made to be right simply depending on if you join them because this is a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Ulfric killed the king in a fair fight that was a Nord tradition. It hasn't been Nord tradition to use the Thu'um as a weapon for quite some time. It wasn't a fair duel. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Ulfric killed the king in a fair fight that was a Nord tradition. It hasn't been Nord tradition to use the Thu'um as a weapon for quite some time. It wasn't a fair duel. So you're trying to tell me that the fight had some kind of rules? Like they were supposed to fight unarmed or something? I guess a mage wouldn't have been allowed to challenge either then? And probably not an archer too. No axes, no hammers, no swords... Fists only, and the first to punch the other guys skull in wins. Is that the way the tradition was written? I doubt it. It was a duel to the death. Perhaps the king should have ordered his guards to kill Ulfric if he wasn't good enough to fight, because I picture a fair combat fight like the arena from Oblivion... anything goes. But, if there's a book in Skyrim that outlines the fair combat rules, let me know and I'll read it and maybe I'll admit the voice was unfair. Wouldn't change my opinion of Ulfric. Everything he says when he talks to me indicates that he is a patriot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) So you're trying to tell me that the fight had some kind of rules? Like they were supposed to fight unarmed or something? I'm telling you, the Thu'um hasn't been used militarily for a very long time. Jurgen Windcaller and his disciples (The Greybeards) established the Thu'um as a means to venerate the Gods. The Thu'um became holy, to put it simply. Ulfric was going to be a Greybeard himself, before he betrayed their trust and left to fight in the war. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Perhaps no one knew how to use it. That doesn't mean it was outlawed from use. I consider Ulfric's use of the voice no different than if he had roasted the king with a magic flame thrower. Is there a rule against using magic, and where can I read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Perhaps no one knew how to use it. That doesn't mean it was outlawed from use. Whether it was legal or not isn't the point. I'm talking about tradition. The same thing Ulfric claims he cares about. Traditionally, the Thu'um is a means to pray. It has been such a means for hundreds of years. What he did to Torygg was profane. It was sacrilegious. For Torygg to have possessed the Thu'um as well, he would have had to be accepted by the Greybeards and then betray them as Ulfric did. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Perhaps it was disrespectful, but that still doesn't answer if it was allowed. The voice seems like a magical ability, so the real question is whether or not magic is allowed in a fair combat duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Perhaps it was disrespectful, but that still doesn't answer if it was allowed. There's no maybe about it, it was disrespectful. Which isn't something to shrug off, when the duel itself was only valid due to the weight it carried as an old Nordic tradition. If we stick with what's legal, then Ulfric is guilty of murder as the Empire of course doesn't allow its most influential representatives to be challenged to single combat. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonslayer2k12 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Well it pretty much sucked to play as a nord and walk in to solitude for the first time and see a nord being executed the same way my character was almost executed and this time no dragon to distract everyone yet the player could have been that dragon. It should have been that if your level was high enough and speechcraft were high enough that you could have stopped the execution and it could have been another quest to go on to save the nords life. Like the queen would tell you that only by going to some place and retrieveing some item or defeating a powerful enemy of solitude would the nords life be spared and he would have to wait in jail until you came back with the item or proof of the the death of the enemy of solitude blah blah. His kid relatives running around saying sad things about him afterward sucked too. The way the endings worked out it seemed like the people of skyrim were better off if you sided with the imperials. Elsif was all sad faced lol when I helped ulfric win haha! She was sitting on that throne like she had to go to the bathroom all the time and her expression kinda fit with that too lol. Solitude was all tore up after ulfric won and stayed that way but if the empire wins then windhelm is less damaged and cleaned up quickly too. For some reason though whiterun is slightly damaged forever? Would be nice to be able to buy the houses of npc that were run out of town after the civil war was over. I can't stand the imperials and just run them through when they try to rob me on the road but it makes them look completely corrupt. I hated to kill all the stormcloaks during the civil war because they never try to rob me before during or after the civil war. Stormcloaks seem to be made up of honest people that are really fighting for something important, empire is just people in the army doing what they are told because they are paid well. There should have been a way to find out if ulfric was just a power hungry jerk or not as some kind of quest where he either reveals his true intentions or proves he is just trying to protect skyrim afterall. Would have made for a much better ending for the civil war and if he was not a power hungry jerk then the quest to find out would lead to another round at the negoatiating table to end the civil war with some discussion and more story told to the player about the thalmor. If he turned out to be a jerk it would be the player job to kill him maybe tullius or that mean lady whatshername could have tagged along or maybe hadvar could be there to report what happened to tullius etc. There are better and more entertaining ways the civil war could have ended it just feels like they didn't really give a crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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