LobselVith66 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 And it was the betrayal at Markarth that spured on Ulfric, since the Empire and Igmund's father offered Ulfric and the Nord militia the freedom to worship Talos in exchange for reclaiming the Reach, as we know from the pro-Legion Jarl Igmund (in contradiction to the "Bear of Markarth"). According to Igmund, it was him and Ulfric alone. The legion only agrees to Ulfric's conditions after Markarth is taken, because violence is escalating within the city and they need to take over. Steward Rearek confirms Ulfric's precarious attitude towards Markarth during the Stormcloak questline. There's no indication anywhere that the emperor or the High King made any promisses to Ulfric. It wasn't him and Ulfric alone, as Cedran and Igmund explicitly state when they address the matter of the Markarth Incident; in fact, it was Igmund's father who handed Ulfric over to the Empire, as Cedran points out when he explains the inception of Ulfric's rebellion. "It's the whole reason Ulfric revolted against the Empire. Well, the first reason anyway. Forsworn had taken over Markarth, and Ulfric and his men drove them out. Empire promised they'd be free to worship Talos afterwords. Pity no one told the Elves. Whole group of those Thalmor came and they demanded Ulfric's arrest." Igmund justified the betrayal in the name of peace with the Thalmor because of the WGC, but he never denies that Ulfric and the others were betrayed by the Empire. Ulfric and the other Nords were offered the freedom to worship Talos in exchange for reclaiming the Reach, and it was Igmund's father who handed them over. "That would be Jarl Igmund. Young for a ruler of a Hold, especially the Reach. Wasn't surprising he stayed loyal to the Empire. His father helped capture Ulfric Stormcloak after the Markarth incident." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifteenspades Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 So after this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VGDhGsYoSA I am somewhat able to believe that maybe Ulfric really did shout Torygg to pieces and that's why no one stopped him on his merry way out, because they were in fact in shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicky540 Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 they let him escape because of the "way of the nords" ... you challenge someone to a one on one combat, kill him, and thats it. ( its familiar with my personal favorite, the "way of the orcs" ... you simply kill someone and dont give a f :D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifteenspades Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Actually if you read back a few pages we've already come to a general agreement that he didn't really challenge him so much as just walk up and kill him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Actually if you read back a few pages we've already come to a general agreement that he didn't really challenge him so much as just walk up and kill him Completely false. We can hear from Torygg's own mouth that he entered into a duel. It was no murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Actually if you read back a few pages we've already come to a general agreement that he didn't really challenge him so much as just walk up and kill him Completely false. We can hear from Torygg's own mouth that he entered into a duel. It was no murder. Indeed. However, we also know that Ulfric trained with the Greybeards, and using the Thu'um the way he did was a breach of the principals of the Way of the Voice. Despite the fact he did not murder Torygg, he did clearly cheat by breaking some of the Nord's oldest traditions. All for the cause of supporting 'ancient laws and customs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifteenspades Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 You must of not have gone back and read through our pages of debate did you? "When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same" Which part of that says "i entered a duel" just because i face my killer doesn't make it not a murder Lach we already went over this topic in extensive details no need to do it again lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 You must of not have gone back and read through our pages of debate did you? "When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same" Which part of that says "i entered a duel" just because i face my killer doesn't make it not a murder Lach we already went over this topic in extensive details no need to do it again lol. Old habits die hard, it seems. :P Anywho, i've always read "I faced him fearlessly" as Torygg's admittance that he accepted a duel, knowing full well he was going to die. Regardless, whatever the case things were not done 'by the book' or in accordance with tradition. Which makes Ulfric a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 You must of not have gone back and read through our pages of debate did you? "When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same" Which part of that says "i entered a duel" just because i face my killer doesn't make it not a murder Lach we already went over this topic in extensive details no need to do it again lol. Come now don't be dense. The phrase "faced him fearlessly" clearly speaks of a confrontation, with the added words of "my fate inescapable" making it obvious Torygg knew what was about to occur. Hardly the words of a mere victim. As for Ulfric being a hypocrite, that depends entirely on perspective. Was it hypocritical to abandon the calling of a Greybeard when he felt he could make a difference as a soldier? Now if he still tried to present himself as a Greybeard all the whilst shouting people to death then yes, that would be hypocritical. That isn't the case however. It would be much more likely that he fancies himself as a Nord chieftain and hero, in the same fashion that Jurgen Windcaller was one before his defeat and psuedo-enlightenement. An ancient hero from the sagas basically. I'd file him under as suffering from delusions of granduer more than anything. :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) Pretty sure if Ulfric "just walked up to the High King and murdered him", he'd have been taken straight to the block instead of put in prison. Jarl or no Jarl. Even Nords, with no allegiances whatsoever wouldn't stand for that. Edited December 1, 2013 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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