Do clean MMM with FO3Edit, or don't do it?

[nenina]

Am I supposed to clean the files from Mart's Mutant Mod with FO3Edit, or leave his work alone? I've seen on other boards conflicting posts by other people.

[blackrat99]

I've never cleaned it. In fact I never clean any mods unless there are problems and I'm 100% sure that a certain mod is the cause. Routinely cleaning mods is not a good idea in my opinion.

[Crabcakes56]

No.Unless it's specified it's okay to do so.

[Deleted21304489User]

My rule is... unless a mod author specifically tells you not to clean a mod, then go ahead and clean it. On that note, if someone tells you not to clean their mod... then they put it together wrong, imo. There is absolutely no reason that a mod should rely on an ITM record. Let alone a UDR.

 

ITM records are only an issue if another mod below it, uses the same record. Even then, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will cause the game to CTD. UDR's are a more serious issue. MMM only has ITM records and it should mostly be loaded at the bottom of your load order, and/or bashed when applicable. That being said... there shouldn't really be anything under it using it's ITM overwrites. Food for thought.

 

Final Note: If you're cleaning mods... then you need to go into the options menu for xxxEdit and turn off the [FO3/FNV] Sort FLST option. Also, under the cleaning tab, turn off all of the options check boxed there. After you have cleaned your mods, turn these options back on, when making a Merged Patch, and/or Bashed patch. Not doing these steps will screw up the form id lists in your mods for FO3. May also create Havoc (collision) problems in the game world. This is only specific to the Fallout 3 game.

 

Specific to Marts Mutant Mod: The main issue with MMM is that it's infested with bad nifs. Remove the goulvariant.nif located in the mesh folder. It's corrupt and serves no purpose. Turn off all creaturs under New Monsters 1 in the menu options. IE: Gheckos, Iguanas, Wanamingos, and Floaters. Bad nif files and the iguanas stack up, causing game crashes. Leave them turned on and you will CTD a lot after awhile. It's up to you.

 

Now you know... good luck.

[GamerRick]

The ONLY reason you want an ITM to remain in a mod is if the mod is intentionally copying an older version of that item over another mod (above it in the load order) that has modified it. Otherwise, it serves no purpose at all for it to be there.

 

An ITM can only really hurt things in the same situation where you don't want the mod to overwrite the changes made by a previous mod.

 

In the situation where the ITM was not changed by any other mod, it will not harm anything for it to be there.

 

I would imagine that the author of MMM intentionally left ITMs in his mod to handle specific conflicts with other mods, and the reason I would make this guess is that he is one of the most knowledgeable mod authors out there. He ain't some newbie who does not know how to use FO3Edit to clean mods. The other possibility is that he quit modding before FO3Edit became available.

 

If I were to use that mod, I would open all mods in FO3Edit at once and then look at each item in MMM that is an ITM to see why it is there. I would remove it if it has no reason to be there. In the event there is a conflict with another mod, I would examine if the changes the other mod makes need to be included with MMM's changes, and then make a patch mod to ensure that the changes from both mods are included.

Edited May 24, 2019 by GamerRick

[Deleted21304489User]

Points taken. However, I've looked this mod up and down. For instance, there's simply no reason for the zones respawn esp file to have all the ITM records that it has. It's obvious that Martegen simply bulk copied the entire zone records from the master file, and just failed to delete the ones he didn't set to respawn. I call that sloppy editing. Not that it's going to hurt anything, but according to any STEP guide... it's considered a "dirty" edit. *shrugs

 

On another note, The Paradox Merger of MMM has been cleaned of all it's "dirty" edits. You can't merge mods together with ITM records and UDR's in them. That, in and of itself, pretty much brings the discussion to a close.

 

Just sayin'.

[GamerRick]

Many mods make unintentional or unnecessary edits to game elements, collectively known as dirty edits. They are often a side-effect of mod ...

 

 

From a google search for the term. Dirty edits are far worse than ITMs and much harder to find. It takes a judgement call to determine if the edit was intentional or not, and only a person can do that.

 

I open ALL mods in FO3Edit to clean them, look for dirty edits (look at modified records versus new ones), look for anything that will conflict with the other mods I have (starting with the UUFP), and to look for things that irk me. If necessary I will open it in the GECK to see things I can't figure out in FO3Edit.

 

Many mods are not compatible with the UUFP, and I make sure they are before using them. For example, if the UUFP changes something in a creature's record, I would have to decide if that change should be copied into the MMM record or if MMM's version should be used instead.

 

I don't know anything about FO3 MMM. I would open it and all other mods in FO3Edit at once and then look through MMM's records line by line to see if it conflicts with any of the other mods. If I see a lot of ITMs and none conflict with other mods, I would close FO3Edit and clean the mod with the new FO3Edit Quick Clean program. If there is one or more ITMs that conflict with a mod that is not a master of MMM, I would look at what exactly the changes are and go from there.

 

What I would look for with MMM is any situation where they intentionally put an ITM in it to keep another mod from screwing up their other records that are dependent on that record. For example, some mod changes a leveled list that MMM doesn't change and it screws up MMM's changes. You would not know about it unless you started to notice that MMM's creatures weren't spawning when they should.

[Deleted21304489User]

That's why God made bash tags. Anywho...

 

...why don't you download the mod and run it through FO3Edit and the GECK. Then come back here and give us all a definite answer as to whether we should, or should not clean it... along with an in depth analysis of your conclusions.

 

Thanks.

[GamerRick]

That's why God made bash tags. Anywho...

 

...why don't you download the mod and run it through FO3Edit and the GECK. Then come back here and give us all a definite answer as to whether we should, or should not clean it... along with an in depth analysis of your conclusions.

 

Thanks.

Because all I would find is how MMM works with the other mods in my personal load list. It would not tell me anything about possible conflicts with mods I don't have.

 

That is the entire point I have been making. The exact answer of what you should do with the MMM plugins depends on your personal load order.

[Deleted21304489User]

Yeh, it's called a conflict report. The subject was, whether MMM should be cleaned in general. Not cleaned, and/or edited based on other mods you yourself are currently using. I don't need, nor did I ever... a lesson on modding from you. I was simply responding to the initial post. Anyway, LOOT says to clean it. How could they be wrong about it, right? FYI: LOOT also considers ITM and UDR records "dirty" edits (plug-ins). Google it.

 

Also, again... the Paradox version of MMM has been cleaned as well, as I stated already. No more lecturing is required from you. Next time you want to chime in, read the topic carefully and maybe... just maybe, be familiar with the mod in question.

 

Take care.

 

 

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