Next best thing for the US (and perhaps the world)

[juderodney]

There's as song played on the CONELRAD mod called "I'm No Communist". Even though it was written in 1952 there are some lyrics that ring true even in today's politics.

 

 

 

Our government is bigger than it ever was today

The more they hire to work for it, the more they have to pay

Our public servants should be proud and honest you would think

Instead of taking bribes and dressing up their wives in mink

 

The taxes keep on going up of that there is no doubt

But still they just can't take it in as fast as they dish it out

Our national debt is monster size and growin' every day

Our children's children, still unborn are gonna have to pay

[Ghogiel]

Romney doesn't care about the economy, neither does Obama. All either of them care about is whatever they're being bribed to care about.

 

Don't worry about Romney taking the White House, he wont. Worry about what Obama is going to do when he takes the White House again. I can tell you now, it'll be damned similar to whatever Romney would have done.

 

We have an equal chance of war no matter who is in office. Romney's middle east rhetoric is just Romney saying whatever the Christian and xenophobic Americans wanna here.

 

I am under the impression that war is inevitable..... Doesn't matter who wins, within a year, two at most, we will be in another war in the middle east, either of our own doing, or, because Israel attacked, and we get dragged in to it. End result will be the same. The muslim world will have even more reason to hate america, the price of gas will skyrocket, the economy will tank, and we will descend into full-blown depression.

 

Yep, I like run-on sentences. :D

That will be a temporary increase in oil costs because.. war wouldn't be good for anyone in the short term, Iran's supply would slow or stop, which would bump the price> mostly harmfully to the EU, yeah that's what we need right now a crippling oil price increase in the EU. Anyway once Iran has been subjugated and it's government is mostly working to promote the US interest, That would secure the middle east oil under the hegemony of the US dollar very solidly, in the aftermath oil prices will be manageable for a longer period.

 

Eventually the price will skyrocket indefinitely, since demand will continue to increase worldwide and sources will likely not. Prices would go up because people hate America, ie if they were trading in euros as a f*** you to the US, but once their resources are controlled and funnelled into the US currency, the Fed can keep printing more dollars> once oil literally dries up then it gets interesting. The dollar would definitely sink. Which would nearly half bankrupt China because of the massive debts owed to them in dollars, which would be worth f*** all compared to what they loaned out . Could be a couple decades off though.

 

I don't know what the end game is though. It's clearly about economics and oil and not really about enough material for a single nuke.

 

speaking of nuking things > http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Edited September 21, 2012 by Ghogiel

[HeyYou]

Romney doesn't care about the economy, neither does Obama. All either of them care about is whatever they're being bribed to care about.

 

Don't worry about Romney taking the White House, he wont. Worry about what Obama is going to do when he takes the White House again. I can tell you now, it'll be damned similar to whatever Romney would have done.

 

We have an equal chance of war no matter who is in office. Romney's middle east rhetoric is just Romney saying whatever the Christian and xenophobic Americans wanna here.

 

I am under the impression that war is inevitable..... Doesn't matter who wins, within a year, two at most, we will be in another war in the middle east, either of our own doing, or, because Israel attacked, and we get dragged in to it. End result will be the same. The muslim world will have even more reason to hate america, the price of gas will skyrocket, the economy will tank, and we will descend into full-blown depression.

 

Yep, I like run-on sentences. :D

That will be a temporary increase in oil costs because.. war wouldn't be good for anyone in the short term, Iran's supply would slow or stop, which would bump the price> mostly harmfully to the EU, yeah that's what we need right now a crippling oil price increase in the EU. Anyway once Iran has been subjugated and it's government is mostly working to promote the US interest, That would secure the middle east oil under the hegemony of the US dollar very solidly, in the aftermath oil prices will be manageable for a longer period.

 

Eventually the price will skyrocket indefinitely, since demand will continue to increase worldwide and sources will likely not. Prices would go up because people hate America, ie if they were trading in euros as a f*** you to the US, but once their resources are controlled and funnelled into the US currency, the Fed can keep printing more dollars> once oil literally dries up then it gets interesting. The dollar would definitely sink. Which would nearly half bankrupt China because of the massive debts owed to them in dollars, which would be worth f*** all compared to what they loaned out . Could be a couple decades off though.

 

I don't know what the end game is though. It's clearly about economics and oil and not really about enough material for a single nuke.

 

speaking of nuking things > http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

 

I think you are being overly optimistic. Look what happened in Iraq...... it was YEARS before oil production got back to even Saddam-era numbers... Iran is a whole 'nother fish. Those folks have been taught to hate americans for decades...... It'll be another Bushism.... declare 'victory' within just a few months.... but then we get to do nation-building with a serious terrorist problem for a decade. As soon as the first shots are fired, oil prices will soar... simply because of the location. (and it's a nice excuse for the oil companies to gouge us, with the appearance of legitimacy....) Also have to consider what Iran will do.... we aren't going to be able to cripple their military in the first five minutes. They WILL get their licks in, and what they choose to target, will determine how long the oil shortage lasts..... Imagine they decide to target various production facilities of american allies in the area? Wouldn't that be interesting??? Not only would we lose Irans production, but some neighbors as well. Not to mention that costs of shipping thru the straights would jump as well...... IF we can even get oil thru there....

 

That map is interesting........ Thanks for the link. :)

[Syco21]

The was won almost immediately, what was left was a different enemy fighting occupation forces. If an occupation means the war is still going, then WWII didn't end till the 90s. :whistling:

[Ghogiel]

I don't think I am being very optimistic. :biggrin:

 

And yeah it is kinda sketchy and could end badly, but I bet they thought about this and have been setting it up for many years now, maybe why they are dragging their feet in the US a little, all the pieces need to be set up or the house of cards might fall.

 

imo there are solutions to the problem faced when stopping Iran's oil production for some time. Forget that China and the EU are the main receivers of their actual exports, it would still hike the price globally, however now Iraq's oil production and export surges, http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2012/09/04/iraqi-oil-exports-hit-new-highs/ will increasingly take some of the slack while Iran is in it's down time and it's oil fields are secured. All they need to do is get the pipelines in Iraq sorted out and secured enough (lol considering the bombing that took the turkey one out not long back ). Or perhaps it's newly proposed pipeline with Jordan, if that works out I doubt the impact on oil prices will be as catastrophic as you think.

 

The trade routes are probably the real issue, I have my doubts that the US will do the same sort of thing with Iran as it has been doing. Unless they are intending to be in there for a long haul like in Iraq. Iran still supports the dollar, all it's oil is traded using, it is a founding member of opec. I don't think there are any options in using another currency, otherwise I would have though it would have done since it's technically financing the same country that is threatening war on it. :teehee:

 

Iran is basically f***ed in any case it seems, but the lack of oil from it can't sink the US. Too many countries and corps would lose if the dollars value crashed.

[HeyYou]

I don't think I am being very optimistic. :biggrin:

 

And yeah it is kinda sketchy and could end badly, but I bet they thought about this and have been setting it up for many years now, maybe why they are dragging their feet in the US a little, all the pieces need to be set up or the house of cards might fall.

 

imo there are solutions to the problem faced when stopping Iran's oil production for some time. Forget that China and the EU are the main receivers of their actual exports, it would still hike the price globally, however now Iraq's oil production and export surges, http://www.iraq-busi...-hit-new-highs/ will increasingly take some of the slack while Iran is in it's down time and it's oil fields are secured. All they need to do is get the pipelines in Iraq sorted out and secured enough (lol considering the bombing that took the turkey one out not long back ). Or perhaps it's newly proposed pipeline with Jordan, if that works out I doubt the impact on oil prices will be as catastrophic as you think.

 

The trade routes are probably the real issue, I have my doubts that the US will do the same sort of thing with Iran as it has been doing. Unless they are intending to be in there for a long haul like in Iraq. Iran still supports the dollar, all it's oil is traded using, it is a founding member of opec. I don't think there are any options in using another currency, otherwise I would have though it would have done since it's technically financing the same country that is threatening war on it. :teehee:

 

Iran is basically f***ed in any case it seems, but the lack of oil from it can't sink the US. Too many countries and corps would lose if the dollars value crashed.

 

And that is EXACTLY why we CAN'T go into Iran currently. You also have more faith in the US government than I do. They have more than adequately demonstrated that they do NOT learn from history, or their mistakes. They do not understand the mindset there, and seem to think that inside every iranian, there is an american trying to come out..... nice thought, but, far from the truth. Our government doesn't even understand it's OWN people...... Any invasion will pretty much ensure a long-term presence there, with all the problems we have/had in Afghanistan/Iraq. Probably much worse.

[Ghogiel]

I don't know, I think if anyone can, the US itself, Russia, China, UK, Japan, Brazil, + oil companies can keep it a float. It is after all in their interest to do so. For now...

 

China has made some moves in the past couple years to place the yuan as an currency that is used in international trade. That's the lynch pin imo. Once countries start trading with something else and it catches on. Thing is, that will only happen when someone big, like china, can allow a devaluing of the dollar to happen and it not end up losing them something huge. I hope I live to see the day the US turns around to china and says, here is your trillion dollars... and all you can buy with it would be a stick of gum. XD

[colourwheel]

I don't know, I think if anyone can, the US itself, Russia, China, UK, Japan, Brazil, + oil companies can keep it a float. It is after all in their interest to do so. For now...

 

China has made some moves in the past couple years to place the yuan as an currency that is used in international trade. That's the lynch pin imo. Once countries start trading with something else and it catches on. Thing is, that will only happen when someone big, like china, can allow a devaluing of the dollar to happen and it not end up losing them something huge. I hope I live to see the day the US turns around to china and says, here is your trillion dollars... and all you can buy with it would be a stick of gum. XD

 

I highly doubt america or any country would pay back anyone with money that isn't back up with some type of gold. If there was some type of new world currency that would come to life, it would still have to be backed up with gold or platinum. The huge problem with the american dollar is it's not worth as much as it use to be, but at the same time other countries currency is decreasing in value too.

 

Money is really no longer valued as much by how much gold a country has, right now it's more so backed up by a matter of trust.

 

If America pays back it's dept with currency that would be concidered useless. America would become less important to the world economically than any 3rd world country. Leading to eventually it's military would be privatised and bought out by others.

 

I really don't see it ever happening...

[Ghogiel]

The reason why Nixon moved to a fiat currency was because that if he didn't the dollar would have devalued... because it was a gold standard currency.

 

He had to do it because the US was clearly printing a f*** ton of money to finance things like Vietnam. Whole countries, such as France tried to make good on the promise the US made when it was decided that dollars would be the international reserve currency, and tried to convert their dollars into gold. The US refused and has since temporarily confiscated a ton of now irredeemable gold, and further bound everyone who had dollars, all major economies, to keep using dollars. That demand in the currency itself is a boon and allows the Fed to print money as the demand increases, untethered to the amount of gold that exists that can back it

 

I doubt gold standards are making their way back any time soon. If the US release the suspension on gold redeemability, the rate of conversion would have to be way less compared to the amount per dollar that was redeemable in the 70's. The amount of dollars in circulation now is a bit more than it was then, and even then it was over printed which was the reason why Nixon switched to a fiat currency in the first place, because people wanted their gold, because the trust in the currency was dipping because people saw a lot of dollars flying around that wasn't supposed to be in the deal.

 

It either has to make a s*** ton of money in surplus to pay off the debt, that means the citizen, imo before other currencies muscle in on the role as a reserve and their economies over take the US.

 

It has to hyper inflate so that paying back the dollar is not as costly as it is now

 

By going gold standard, that would probably be the only way people who have any trust in it again. I don't think it'll work out too well, unless, however unlikely the US actually has the gold reserves for it. I mean does it? Ron Paul and several Republicans have been asking for an audit of the US gold reserves for a while now. Apparently an audit hasn't been done since the 50's. So if there is a lot of gold in those vaults, it's possible it could work. You can call me sceptic though.

[colourwheel]

Here is something I found really interesting about Mitt Romney...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU9V6eOFO38&feature=player_embedded

 

 

If mitt Romney really doesn't care about 47% of america he really shouldn't be running for pressident. I did some research on this video and he was talking to a small group of wealthy contributors to convience them to help support his campaign.

 

here is the full video...

 

and here is the original webpage http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser

 

here is another thing about HUD... http://youtu.be/_EPnDQXstVs

 

I don't know about you but unless you are very rich there is no reason to vote for Romney.

Edited September 25, 2012 by colourwheel