LE New custom Skeleton?

[ghosu]

Hi

 

Well i'm working on animations atm for my mod, are there still no news when it comes to the creation/import of a whole new skeleton or a way to adjust original ones to exactly fit custom meshes? Like for weapons, i'm not talking 'bout slightly modified character skeletons.

 

This would be a quite exciting progress and would bring modding to a whole new level...

 

The only thing i've found so far is this guy:

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/11434

...i'll try to contact him, maybe he has knowledge when it comes to weapon skeletons as well.

 

I just started to animate stuff but it would be easier to know if there is a way to create a new skeleton or if i have to mess around with the original ones...'cause i haven't found a wave to change bone size yet :(

 

Any other news or did i miss a progress?

I'm using 3dsMax

 

greetings

[ghosu]

No one? This would be a great start for so much awesome mods...there must be some knowledge around...something :D

[Ghogiel]

Not sure I understand the question. The skeleton.nifs in skyrim are virtually identical to oblivion and F3. What is different in skyrim is the animation and behaviour files. You can just export and set up a skeleton with the max niftools exporter and nifskope.

 

 

Implementing new creatures into the engine is the other question. You can make all the nif and hkx files though...

Edited September 16, 2012 by Ghogiel

[ghosu]

Hi, what i mean:

 

This is the original crossbow skeleton I'm using for my musket mod atm:

 

http://666kb.com/i/c74s9ahcsjgsrfzn7.gif

 

And i haven't found a way yet to adjust it to fit my weapon to create animations like that:

http://666kb.com/i/c6yypl45ot7pqjnzf.gif

 

I would like to create a new skeleton like that:

http://666kb.com/i/c7b34a9jmh1tv0g27.png

 

With bones attached to the moving parts so i can rotate 'em as i want, using the original crossbow skeleton is quite a mess since the bone structure is quite different.

 

greetings

Edited September 16, 2012 by ghosu

[Ghogiel]

I don't have any of these DLC for skyrim. But if it's still done like F3, ie the animation itself may actually be controlled entirely in the animation files and what you see in the weapon is just a left over, or if it is playing that animation in the weapon nif, then it still likely is controlled by a controlled block in the animation.

 

first thing to look at is the vanilla animation files and confirm that the controlled blocks and the animation data is either present in there to determine how and from where it's actually controlled. Then in either case make the rig, animate it, and export. Then you have to create an attack animation, convert to a KF, add new controlled blocks for your bones/paste in the animation data depending how it is referenced.

 

Secondly the recoil effect would be character animation and not an animation you put into the weapons animation data. all the holding, priming and firing is something you would do on the character rig. The only animation that the weapon would do is cocking and trigger pull.

[ghosu]

I don't have any of these DLC for skyrim. But if it's still done like F3, ie the animation itself may actually be controlled entirely in the animation files and what you see in the weapon is just a left over, or if it is playing that animation in the weapon nif, then it still likely is controlled by a controlled block in the animation.

 

first thing to look at is the vanilla animation files and confirm that the controlled blocks and the animation data is either present in there to determine how and from where it's actually controlled. Then in either case make the rig, animate it, and export. Then you have to create an attack animation, convert to a KF, add new controlled blocks for your bones/paste in the animation data depending how it is referenced.

 

Secondly the recoil effect would be character animation and not an animation you put into the weapons animation data. all the holding, priming and firing is something you would do on the character rig. The only animation that the weapon would do is cocking and trigger pull.

 

Not so fast, i'm still new when it comes to animation buuut:

 

So far i've seen 2 "kinds of animation":

1. Animation that is saved directly in the nif file without rigging/skeleton...so when you equip the weapon ingame it starts to play the animation. I used that for a hidden blade like in Assassins Creed. When the weapon is unequipped it uses the normal static nif file, when you equip it it changes to another nif that starts with an animation and reveals the blade - like in AC. The animation data was directly stored in the nif. Or like this test weapon i created:

http://666kb.com/i/c33l0xhriucnvo0t6.jpg

Simple rotation i added directly in the nif file.

 

2. Animations using .hkx files (like shown here: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Working_with_animations_in_Skyrim)

 

Since a crossbow is weighted and bound to the skeleton.hkx i have to use variation 2.

And the original skeleton doesn't fit the shape of my musket, the moving parts are on a different position to when i weight my parts to a moving bone it moves out of the correct position.

That's why i want a new skeleton so i can adjust it to fit my model. Guess i have to learn a bit more or just try around, it's a bit hard to explain :D

 

greetings

 

 

 

I

Edited September 16, 2012 by ghosu

[Ghogiel]

Your first 'type' animation is just a cycle animation and will play on loop. Or it will play once at equip then stop if set to clamp. To actually trigger a clamp animation to play when specified, like the hammer striking and the recoil happen in a unison, you need to have those controlled blocks in the character animation file.

 

Those are the same thing really. The animation data in a KF is the same as if were in a nif under a NiControllerManager. that's what I am saying you just animate the nif as normal, and basically the paste the animation data from that into a character anim.

 

The weapon 'skeleton', you really don't need to think of it like that, these are just ninodes we are talking about and there is nothing like the collision and constraint setup of an actual havok enabled skeleton, anyway that just gets attached to the actor at the weapon bone. The character animation plays, if it has controlled blocks that will find the name of the ninodes in the weapon nif, it will control them however the animation data tell them to move

[ghosu]

Hi

 

You know of a kind of tutorial or whatever 'bout that? Because as i mentioned i started a few days ago with animations so i don't undertstand that much...atm i do it as shown in the tutorial pdf postet above.

 

1) convert crossbow_release.hkx wo crossbow_release.kf

2) open the crossbow.nif in 3Ds Max, delete the original mesh, import my model (for example 2 parts)

3) import crossbow_release.kf animation

3) select the static part, add a skin modifier, weight it to a bone that is not moving (like crossbow_root)

4) select the other part (the lock), weight it to a bone that moves in the original animation (like armbone01)

5) delete the original animation, animate the lock by moving the moveable bone and keyframe it.

(this is the part where my part moves out of position because the bone is not in the same position as my model)

6) export as nif, animation only and save it as kf

7) convert kf back to crossbow_release.hkx and use it as a replacer for the original file

 

- when i try to animate a part that is weighted to a static bone (like crossbow_root) by moving the MESH, not the bone it jumps back into the original position after each key (i guess that happen's cause it's attached to the bone)

 

So i can only animate it by moving the bones, so i'm very limited.

When i'm reading your recommendations my brain goes: "huh?!"

 

Because "I am saying you just animate the nif as normal, and basically the paste the animation data from that into a character anim. "

Isn't that exactly what i'm doing in 3Ds Max? There is the problem with the mesh that always jump back into position after each key because they are weighted to the bone.

 

I'll record a video for better understanding,

 

I'm missing the basic knowledge but this is the only tutorial 'bout Skyrim animation i found, the one on the Nexus is quite the same...

And i already started 'bout 10 topics without response (since there are not many people out there that can handle animations) so there is no escape for you! :D

 

thx

Edited September 16, 2012 by ghosu

[Ghogiel]

 

- when i try to animate a part that is weighted to a static bone (like crossbow_root) by moving the MESH, not the bone it jumps back into the original position after each key (i guess that happen's cause it's attached to the bone)

 

So i can only animate it by moving the bones, so i'm very limited.

 

When you skin something to a bone, you make the bone the parent to the mesh, it will inherit transforms down the hierarchy. You can go into sub object level and animate there if it is skinned, of course you will never get vertex animation like that in a game engine so it's pointless here. EVERYTHING can be animated in max, but game engines don't really care about a lot of that. With niftools we have even less power because all it can export is transforms and morph animations. All the other type of controllers have to be built in nifskope.

 

I don't have these crossbows, so I'll just assume that they work like F3 guns, if you open the crossbow_release.kf, can you find controlled blocks for any of the crossbow bones? If you can, it's the same as F3... if not I need to see the kf to see how it hooks into the weapon nif.

 

Anyway if that is true, as an experiment, build your own rig and animate the musket, don't worry about doing it proper just make some POC anim so you know something would happen, name your bones something unique. Then export it as it's own kf. Now open this crossbow_release.kf, add some new additional controlled blocks named the same as your bones. Paste in the NiTransformData from your exported kf. Now that animation should have data that will find, because the controlled blocks in the kf have the same name as the ninodes(bones) in the nif, and control the bones in your nif via the NiTransformData you pasted into it.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Ghogiel

[ghosu]

Maybe you find the time to check it, thx Edited September 17, 2012 by ghosu