So, No FO3 Assets into FNV Mods

[CourierandWanderer]

This particular topic has left me in confusion. So please, don't judge. Not long ago, I uploaded a mod with a companion NPC wearing the Outcast Power Armor and Helmet, except I couldn't include the texture files for the helmet. The reason why I couldn't include them was because they were files from Fallout 3. Apparently, there is a rule that says I can't transfer any meshes, textures, and sounds from Fallout 3 to Fallout: New Vegas. I followed the rule accordingly simply because I don't want to get banned for a mod that I have made and am passionately improving since it's an alpha mod. However, here is where I am confused.

 

There are FNV mods that use FO3 assets. They have been on Nexus Mods for years, yet none of them got removed; and none of the modders who made them have been banned. Perhaps a good example I can give is Project Nevada. Project Nevada is not just a gameplay overhaul mod, but it also brings back some weapons from FO3. This includes FO3's Assault Rifle and Chinese Assault Rifle. Some of the sound effects were also used, just not all of them. How were they able to get away with this?

 

As I am asking this question, please know that I am not looking to steal assets from other sources nor looking for an excuse to do so. Let's not jump the shark. If someone were to steal assets from a mod I made (I have at least one custom texture file in my Exile companion mod, one of my making) especially without my consent, I would be upset. So, I understand the rule, as well as understand the concern. Instead of this forum topic being removed, I think it's fair that I get an answer to this.

[user826]

A lot of Fallout 3 assets and textures remain in the New Vegas files, but are left unused or otherwise aren't implemented in the game. This "legacy content" is perfectly fine to use because they were included in New Vegas, and therefore are considered part of the game's files. However, the way I understand it, the rights for Fallout 3's content and New Vegas content are owned by different entities, and so porting content between them violates the usage rights. It's perfectly fine to do it for your own personal use (as long as you own both games) but distributing that content online to other people constitutes piracy.

 

One way to get around this restriction is to modify the base game content so that it technically counts as your own work. For instance, with your Outcast power armor, you might add a dirt smear or a logo somewhere on the texture. Now, this technically becomes your own work, and you can freely distribute it. The same goes for Fallout 3 meshes. You can move some vertices around in Blender, or just change the texture paths to use a custom texture you made yourself, and that again becomes technically your own work, and can be distributed.

Edited September 1, 2019 by user826

[dubiousintent]

IANAL, but I'm pretty sure just adding a minor touch like a dirt smear or logo to a texture is not enough "substantial original content" to count as a "derivative work", which means it will still be covered by the original copyright. But that distinction is how lawyers make money. There are only two opinions that matter unless you are willing to go to court over the issue: Nexus (who have always said in effect they will play it safe and not get involved in legal wrangles as they have "no skin in the game" and can only lose no matter who else wins), and the original artwork copyright holder.

 

Bear in mind the RIAA has shown no individual is "too young or too small" to be sued over copyright, because they can't afford to defend themselves against deep pockets and will have to settle in the end, usually even before it goes to trial.

 

If you create your own version of that FO3 armor "from scratch" without more than referencing that image, that will probably qualify as "original". The key to defending it as original work will there being enough differences someone examining the files can tell you didn't just make minor changes. The issue is much like "plagiarism". Replacing a couple of words or their placement does not make it "original work".

 

As mentioned, if you take an existing suit from FNV and mod it to look as close as possible to the FO3 Outcast armor, that will also avoid the problem, because that is a legal mod using assets present in FNV.

 

-Dubious-

[CourierandWanderer]

IANAL, but I'm pretty sure just adding a minor touch like a dirt smear or logo to a texture is not enough "substantial original content" to count as a "derivative work", which means it will still be covered by the original copyright. But that distinction is how lawyers make money. There are only two opinions that matter unless you are willing to go to court over the issue: Nexus (who have always said in effect they will play it safe and not get involved in legal wrangles as they have "no skin in the game" and can only lose no matter who else wins), and the original artwork copyright holder.

 

Bear in mind the RIAA has shown no individual is "too young or too small" to be sued over copyright, because they can't afford to defend themselves against deep pockets and will have to settle in the end, usually even before it goes to trial.

 

If you create your own version of that FO3 armor "from scratch" without more than referencing that image, that will probably qualify as "original". The key to defending it as original work will there being enough differences someone examining the files can tell you didn't just make minor changes. The issue is much like "plagiarism". Replacing a couple of words or their placement does not make it "original work".

 

As mentioned, if you take an existing suit from FNV and mod it to look as close as possible to the FO3 Outcast armor, that will also avoid the problem, because that is a legal mod using assets present in FNV.

 

-Dubious-

Except the meshes I used are directly from FNV. There is a feature in GECK where you can use the mesh and give it a different texture. They did the same thing when they made the vault jumpsuits. They are one mesh being used with a multitude of textures. My mod has not been taken down thus far, which means I haven't broken any rules thus far. The only FO3 asset I was not allowed to upload was the texture for the Outcast Power Helmet. The armor is legacy content. Since I did not upload the texture, the safer my project is. If it was uploaded, then it would've been gone one or two hours later.

[GamerRick]

I took a quick look and FNV's Project Nevada, and it copies the FO3 Combat Shotgun mesh and textures. They may have added iron sights to it but they look identical in NifSkope, and have the same filename and location. Pretty blatant example of a FO3 mesh and texture ported to FNV.

 

Meanwhile there is an FO3 mod where they used the FNV Cop Car, didn't supply it with their mod, and require you to copy them over if you want them there (over the missing mesh things that will appear).

 

Has anyone been banned for providing meshes/textures from one game to their mod for the other?

[CourierandWanderer]

I took a quick look and FNV's Project Nevada, and it copies the FO3 Combat Shotgun mesh and textures. They may have added iron sights to it but they look identical in NifSkope, and have the same filename and location. Pretty blatant example of a FO3 mesh and texture ported to FNV.

 

Meanwhile there is an FO3 mod where they used the FNV Cop Car, didn't supply it with their mod, and require you to copy them over if you want them there (over the missing mesh things that will appear).

 

Has anyone been banned for providing meshes/textures from one game to their mod for the other?

No. They're legacy content. I just found them in FNV's mesh and texture libraries. It would also explain why the sound effect of firing the Chinese Assault Rifle isn't in the PN mod. Using those legacy assets, they literally rebuilt the weapons in the GECK. Now it's starting to make sense. As for iron sights, they had them in FO3 as well but didn't use the first person aiming animations that FNV uses.

Edited September 2, 2019 by CourierandWanderer

[GamerRick]

OK. I found that nif in FNV's BSA. I didn't realize FNV put unused assets from F03 in their BSAs. It also explains why going the other way and using FNV assets in FO3 is a nono.

 

I would think you can't use it then, but would defer to others that know more about this issue.

[Mktavish]

Ya lots of un used assets from Fo3 in FNV .... it's almost as if they just copied stuff over ... hehe

 

How bout them saints with that field goal :smile:

 

On copywrite infringement ... If you change the art work by 30% .................

It is not considered infringement needing compensation.

And that is true through all forms of intellectual property .

If it rides the line of infringement ... it takes a jury to decide if it crossed.

Therefore compensation and how much.

 

plagerism is obviouis

[dubiousintent]

Just to be clear (because some responses seem to indicate the opposite conclusion): everything Nexus and Bethesda has said is to the effect "if FO3 material is already present in FNV files, then it can be used in FNV". You only get into trouble if you try to bring something over from FO3 (or any other game) that does not already exist in the FNV files (either "loose" or in BSAs). The same rules apply to any game, in either direction (older to newer or vice versa). If it's already present in that published game, you can use it no matter where it originated. If it has to be copied between games, then it's a violation of copyright.

 

@Mktavish: The 30% number is interesting. Where did you get (source) it?

 

-Dubious-

[FiftyTifty]

If you do need to use Fallout 3 assets, do remember that there is always the Tale of Two Wastelands mod.