Is beauty lore-unfriendly?

[rickerhk]

My choice isn't listed:

Lore doesn't matter, reality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is immersiveness.

[ElizaW]

So far I've modded Skyrim to clean up the textures and blocky faces, but that's about it, appearance-wise. Maybe it's a girl-thing, but I find most of the 'beauty' mods sortof gross. Unnatural black lashes, giant eyes, grossly proportioned breasts. I don't mind that there are mods out there to change the styles. I just wish they wouldn't take up so much space on the nexus, because it's really not something I'm interested in and I hate scrolling through it all.

 

What I'd love to see is a body-type mod. Thick bodies with big breasts, thin women without curves, the difference between a boxer's build and a runner's, ect. Not really practical when you realize that you'd need to change the clothes to accommodate.

[FishBiter]

Personally, I use Bella's Better Females mod, but not the stripper makeup option. Most of the women in my game are pretty, but not sexy, if that makes sense. Pretty faces, yes. Skimpy armor and huge jigging boobs, no.

 

 

I don't find huge fake boobs attractive. I believe a woman can look sexy while totally covered in clothing. In other words I'm a fan of subtle sexiness, not in your face manufactured and (in my opinion) hideous plastic women.

 

I personally think a woman with long dark hair, dressed from neck to toe in full plate armor is sexy as hell :thumbsup:

 

 

My choice isn't listed:

Lore doesn't matter, reality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is immersiveness.

 

It's not a choice because it doesn't really fit as an answer I think... can beauty or the lack of it be immersive?

 

 

What I'd love to see is a body-type mod. Thick bodies with big breasts, thin women without curves, the difference between a boxer's build and a runner's, ect. Not really practical when you realize that you'd need to change the clothes to accommodate.

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/23311

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/16668

 

:happy:

Edited October 17, 2012 by FishBiter

[blackninja50]

Well if you want to stay close to Bethesda's lore. Try this.

The first one: Among other things what is Dibella the goddess of?

Second one: With magic/Sheogorath some strings and shells can make armor stronger then any mere mortal armor. So you could just find the skimpyist armor in the vanilla game and compare it to th armor in question to determine if a armor is un-lore friendly.

last one: If Sheogorath is not involved it's probably not lore friendly, witch actually could be used as a answer for all 3.

 

But thats only me... or is it?

[AnkhAscendant]

Honestly I think that if you have to go with "Sheogorath did it" you're just making excuses.

 

The skimpiest armor in the game is, I think, Forsworn. What kind of armor rating do those have? Now I'm curious.

[StayFrosty05]

I'm much more interested in 'realism' rather than 'lore'.....

 

1/ Some people are visually more aesthetically pleasing than others to look at.

2/ Only Prostitutes generally wore make up in our corresponding historical references.

3/ Sex is as real as spilling blood.

4/ Heavy Armor is ridiculous for the free movement given in Skyrim...it's impossible....If I had to choose between the two Skimpy and Heavy, I would probably actually find the skimpy more realistic....as it stands, the best I can do right now until I start modding Armors myself is only use Light Armor (will be modding the light first) and try to ignore the Heavy until I hit it with modding also.....As it stands in my game, the Forsworn are skimpy because it suits them, the rest are in vanilla.

5/ I don't use any Anime', cutesy or modern outfits....or items.

[blackninja50]

@AnkhAscendant BLASPHEMY! with Sheogorath and some chess all things are possible even if it's not or is it snot? Ho and about Forsworn armor is that Legendary, enchanted or just normal? Because Legendary is way better then normal.

[FishBiter]

I'm much more interested in 'realism' rather than 'lore'.....

 

 

4/ Heavy Armor is ridiculous for the free movement given in Skyrim...it's impossible....If I had to choose between the two Skimpy and Heavy, I would probably actually find the skimpy more realistic....as it stands, the best I can do right now until I start modding Armors myself is only use Light Armor (will be modding the light first) and try to ignore the Heavy until I hit it with modding also.....As it stands in my game, the Forsworn are skimpy because it suits them, the rest are in vanilla.

 

This is a whole topic unto itself. If you look at studies that were actually done, heavy medieval armor wasn't actually as cumbersome as one might think. I've seen videos of a guy in a full knight suit doing jumping jacks, cartwheels, and monkey rolls; what he was wearing would be about equivelant to Skyrim's steel plate armor.

 

Now, the other factor that comes into play here is design; not all knight suits were identical, and some could have been quite poorly designed and restricted movement more. Of course, if we want to know which nations had poorly designed armor, we just have to look at who lost and was taken over by someone else.

 

Knight suits didn't make you invincible, and of course just like nowadays, the second someone advanced the protective gear of the day, someone else modified their weapons to puncture it, which means mobility continued to be a factor no matter how much metal you covered yourself in. Two heavily armored soldiers wielding halberds going toe-to-toe wasn't all that different from two lightly armored men wielding rapiers; at any moment, one can land a killing blow on the other. It is for this reason that if you had a knight suit that severely restricted mobility, it would be difficult to convince anyone to actually wear it onto the field of battle, unless they were going to be fighting exclusively on horseback.

 

The primary difference is that the heavy guys are going to get tired fast, and that whoever gets exhausted first is probably the one who's gonna die, meaning that as the armor, and weapon, gets heavier, physical conditioning starts to outpace skill as the primary factor of victory ( which falls perfectly in line with military reasoning; some men will always be more skilled than others, but everyone can run laps and do pushups to push their endurance).

 

Now if we put the rapier guy up against the halberd guy, it's basically the endurance of the knight versus the agility of the duelist. The relevant question here is, how well would the in-game mechanics represent this sort of light vs heavy fight?

 

For armor in the game to really be realistic, there would need to be some sort of fatigue tax while wearing heavy armor. Carrying a heavy load, especially one like armor that is generally designed to distribute the weight evenly over your body, doesn't force you to move slower or make you less agile; what it does is make all those fast agile movements more tiring.

 

On the other hand, heavy armor should gain a realistic level of immunity to light weapons; a rapier really shouldn't be able to kill someone in heavy steel armor just by being thrust against that breastplate repeatedly. Heavier weapons, designed to puncture heavy armor, could kill someone in steel plate, but at a heavier cost to fatigue. The DT DR system we saw in Fallout New Vegas seems like it could have been well utilized in Skyrim, and I'm surprised they decided to go with such a primitive "Defense = % damage reduced" system.

 

Now let's take that realism from our world and bring it into Skyrim. Great, that just made it even more complicated. Dwarven, elven, ebony, daedric, glass, etc... These aren't just materials, these titles also all have design implications... which of course aren't represented at all in the vanilla game, other than bringing you closer to not being able to run. When you start to add in ehchantments and magic and mystical beings... well, there's no scientific data on that, so what is there to say really.

 

 

So... after all that typing... while I disagree with you on the topic of how much mobility the heavy armor in the game allows you at least when it comes to the more "mundane" armor sets, I do agree with you that heavy armor is unrealistically represented in the game, and that it can sometimes appear that some are demanding a realistic appearance be wrapped around unrealistic mechanics.

 

I did it, I finished typing! :dance:

Edited October 18, 2012 by FishBiter

[StayFrosty05]

Good write up and good read Fishbiter... :happy: ....I agree...you are spot on, fatigue is the greatest contributing factor IRL....would have loved it to effect the stamina bar in game.....Does look way too heavy to spend days running around on foot, mountain climbing and leaping about in battle....my Dovahkin has a penchant for such activities.... :blush: ....(only wears fur a soft leather variants) .....Plus people wearing their heavy or hard coat Armors (Metal, Glass, Ebony, etc...) 24/7....have you ever caught a Bandit Chief tucked away in his private room sleeping or relaxing in a shirt and pants or just his undies at least?.... :tongue:

 

I do disagree with your statement here:

 

"For armor in the game to really be realistic, there would need to be some sort of fatigue tax while wearing heavy armor. Carrying a heavy load, especially one like armor that is generally designed to distribute the weight evenly over your body, doesn't force you to move slower or make you less agile; what it does is make all those fast agile movements more tiring."

 

Yes, there would need to be a fatigue tax....but I do disagree that you wouldn't move any slower or be any less agile whilst carrying the extra outer body shell as such...that alone, not taking the weight into account affords less mobility and agility in itself....flexibility is hindered....(I wouldn't mind seeing that video you mentioned...I would love to study his body movements).....to remedy that, I would myself if I decide to re-design the Heavy Armors add a lot more chain mail and metal knit replacing a great deal of that hard unyielding casing....It would still be heavy, thus a still much needed fatigue Tax, but would go a long way towards visually explaining and allowing for the agility and speed present in the game.

 

As for a Light Armored warrior going toe to toe with a Heavy Armored Warrior in game....I can speak from too much experience here that the Light Armored soul gets stomped.... :ohdear: ....I trawl the Nexus on a very regular basis looking for agility mods....I have a Front Flip (very cool for sailing over an opponents head.... :biggrin: ...)...and is a fast move for avoiding magic and direct weapon swings....saved his life many a time....but it doesn't set him up for a counter strike....have to run like a girl instead... :blush: ....what I would love to see is a from standing side roll mod...one which could leave you facing the opponent from another angle....you could get a strike in before they could turn to face you again....I know that's well and truly possible from experience with Martial Arts.

 

I haven't played much of FalloutNV....so can't really speak for it's mechanics...but would eventually like to take a closer look.

 

And as a non user and non looter of enchanted weapons/armor and magic I can't really speak for what is available among those in the Skyrim game...as I haven't taken a whole lot of notice.

Edited October 19, 2012 by StayFrosty05

[Semtex]

I would just add that plate armor and knights disappear from the battlefield only after the advent of firearms and the "mass armies" (but after that, they disappear quickly). The Knights were highly professional warriors, exercise and trained for this work from childhood. Their physical fitness was at similar level as today's "Special Forces". There are known cases where they fought in armor even a few hours in the middle of battle (on foot, I note).

Plate armor is to be worn quite well, as far as is well-made - and it was almost always well-made, because they were generally made egronomically for the owner.

 

I occasionally fence ("gothic fencing" - sword and shield) and I can say one thing - against a warrior with a shield the fencer with the rapier (or katana) does no chance. The shield is a huge advantage... I'd say that the shield and art of wielding the shield is more important than armor. Yes, wielding the shield is art...

Stayfrosty - jump over the enemy ... is a nice film trick, but in real duels fighter will tried this just once one time - last time. It's physically impossible *except you are an superhuman* - for this it is necessary jump from place to a height at least 2.5-3 meters and 4-5 meters into the distance. And rivals can just set the sword... In reality - fast, quickly and bloody end of duel.

 

But back to theme.

It's okay if some of the characters (from the plugins) are nicer than others. But, do not overdo this - beauty is relative category. Likewise should be some nasty characters, uglier than others. Also, there is "missing" some cripples, beggars, ugly witches and humans alike. Beggars in the game seem more like as work-shy or good-for-nothing, than actually poor or helpless people.

 

"Skimpy armor" and "cute clothes"

I'm not directly against them, just it's "nice" and it's good for looking at it, but it must have an sense and logic. It acts inappropriately, if this clad figures will moving through the Snows plains in the snow storm, but in an temple, palace or commonly in building, and for some "higher class" people it is quite acceptable. Houses and various buildings are built for the long cold winter, so they are well insulated and have a pleasant warmth. But Skyrim is a cold region, so people will move out in appropriately warm clothing, thus skimpy armor and cute clothes are only for "domestic use" and special occasion.

 

Anime clothing and modern clothing

I think - rather not.