Spoilers from beta 1.8

[luzburg]

The reason why Bethesda released Dawnguard in the state it was in was, because like MANY other people, myself included, they didn't get any major game-breaking bugs when they played through it. You really don't seem to understand that you can play Skyrim 100 times, and only ever see a bug that had been in the game since launch, once, or until after a patch.

 

The game isn't unfinished, Bethesda simply didn't get many of the major bugs in their play through during testing, similarly the Unoffical Skyrim Patch team isn't able to fix many bugs people claim they have because they cant get the bug to happen for them.

 

 

I agree. The people getting the bugs will be the most vocal and I think this clouds the fact that a lot of people do not get these bugs.

Edited November 4, 2012 by luzburg

[Stemin]

Many would argue that that is basically a major point in the definition of unfinished products. If it's something that is common enough to cause issues for a large number of users to the extent that their ability to play or enjoy the game is impacted negatively, then it needs to be fixed asap. Smaller bugs are perfectly fine to put to the next patch, but beth has a tendency to patch oddly, not always in a way that benefits the community. At least, not as much as they could.

lets not argue though, please? no arguing. *nods*

 

Which is just another thing I find irritating about these forums. Everyone here runs mods like crazy and then they complain that Bethesda's game is buggy. Bethesda didn't write the game to support your mods. Case in point they're complaining about bugs and how many people in this thread are complaining because they didn't want to update to 1.8. An update Bethesda put out to fix bugs. Facts are facts and if you go to any non PC modding forum you'd find that most of the stock bugs have been fixed. Even the guys playing on PS3 are saying that and they had the most issues on that platform.

 

Here's a suggestion. If you don't want your game to break, don't mod an unfinished game. There are gonna be changes.

 

It makes my head ache when people spend hundreds of hours on a game and then complain there's something wrong with it. It's like sitting through an entire movie and then demanding your money back or eating an entire meal at a restaurant and doing the same.

 

I for one was dreaming of games of this quality when I started playing games growing up. The only games we had like these were text based MUDs.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Stemin

[Stemin]

Ok quick answer Gothic 3, same level of content, massive world space to tromp around in and a more efficient bug team. Their patches didn't break as many new things as our current Bethsada programmers have. I have played the TES series from the nascent beginnings and this particular offering has been a bug fest with each patch breaking as much as it fixed. Am sorry but Ginny is correct in her appraisal in my opinion. I have no problem playing through a game till the bug patches fix things but each new BS patch leaves me with more trepidation than anticipation.

 

I highly doubt that a game created in 2006 meets Skyrim's level of entertainment, but having not played it, I can't really make that claim now can I? Maybe I'll get to check it out at some point.

[slainia]

No offense stemin, but part of being a customer - a good one in fact - is the ability to discuss the good AND bad of a product.

The only way a company can do improve is if their user base - us, the console users, the modders and even the people who write about the game (assuming they play it) spend time exploring and pointing out areas where the game went wrong in some way or finding glitches etc.

 

When I talk about Skyrim, I try and be realistic to the ext that skyrim is HUGE, but also to the idea that i spent...what was it, 60? on it. They - bethesda - want me to spend more money on it, which I just did actually. If i'm going to do that, I want to be able to enjoy it and play relatively stress-free. Just because I'm able to spend 100s of hours playing the game, does not mean finding major bugs won't tick me off. (Mind you, if they're a rare bug I don't care so much. It's the long lasting, seemingly-ignored ones that get to me.)

 

The thing about that is, Bethesda's first and foremost priority is sales. Thats the way it has to be - if they expect me to spend money on their game, it has to be high quality. Skyrim is the only game I've bought since I got oblivion game 2 years ago from steam - that was actually my 2nd purchase of it, too.

 

 

Think about it this way:

 

How much of Canada and the Us is struggling severely in terms of finances?

 

I'll give you a hint... the number is depressing. most of us struggle - I'm on disability, when I bought skyrim I sorta went hungry for a month to do it. Was my choice, and I was glad to do it, but in a sense money is worth more now than it was 5 years ago.

 

Less of it to go around, the essentials cost more and so on - Bethesda has to make their product worth it to us. They haven't done horribly, and definitely in a creative sense they've done very well, but they can improve. As a customer it's my right, and my responsibility, to be vocal *in a polite manner* as to how I think they can do that.

Edited November 5, 2012 by slainia

[Stemin]

No offense stemin, but part of being a customer - a good one in fact - is the ability to discuss the good AND bad of a product.

The only way a company can do improve is if their user base - us, the console users, the modders and even the people who write about the game (assuming they play it) spend time exploring and pointing out areas where the game went wrong in some way or finding glitches etc.

 

When I talk about Skyrim, I try and be realistic to the ext that skyrim is HUGE, but also to the idea that i spent...what was it, 60? on it. They - bethesda - want me to spend more money on it, which I just did actually. If i'm going to do that, I want to be able to enjoy it and play relatively stress-free. Just because I'm able to spend 100s of hours playing the game, does not mean finding major bugs won't tick me off. (Mind you, if they're a rare bug I don't care so much. It's the long lasting, seemingly-ignored ones that get to me.)

 

The thing about that is, Bethesda's first and foremost priority is sales. Thats the way it has to be - if they expect me to spend money on their game, it has to be high quality. Skyrim is the only game I've bought since I got oblivion game 2 years ago from steam - that was actually my 2nd purchase of it, too.

 

 

Think about it this way:

 

How much of Canada and the Us is struggling severely in terms of finances?

 

I'll give you a hint... the number is depressing. most of us struggle - I'm on disability, when I bought skyrim I sorta went hungry for a month to do it. Was my choice, and I was glad to do it, but in a sense money is worth more now than it was 5 years ago.

 

Less of it to go around, the essentials cost more and so on - Bethesda has to make their product worth it to us. They haven't done horribly, and definitely in a creative sense they've done very well, but they can improve. As a customer it's my right, and my responsibility, to be vocal *in a polite manner* as to how I think they can do that.

 

IMO, you also have an obligation as a human being to be realistic and in some regards, appreciative.

 

Yes, Skyrim is buggy, but they've also been diligent since the get go to fix those issues and as I said in my post above, most of the stock bugs have been fixed. They haven't addressed much from the DLC's yet, true, but the stock game is in very good shape for those of us who don't use mods.

 

And as you said, Bethesda IS a business. Right now they're selling more copies of Skyrim than a lot of other companies out there. That says their business is successful. It's successful for a reason. For the reason I tried to point out in my response to Janus. Nobody is doing it better, regardless of whether you guys think its mediocre.

 

It IS a business and they DO have deadlines to meet, and monetary limits to what they can and can't do.

 

You guys may think the game doesn't live up to your standards, but they have basically answered every single complaint that was made about Oblivion and tried to come up with new features to add to the game.

 

Appreciate it for what it is. A fantastic game that the creators allowed you to build and expand on, or choose to dwell on the negatives, most of which will be fixed by Bethesda or a modder by the time the final copy is done anyways. It's your choice, but if you're going to choose to complain about it, don't expect me or anyone else to just fall in line and agree with you or even appreciate listening to all the negative complaints on a day to day basis from people who have probably spent more time playing this year than they probably have any other game in their collection.

[slainia]

Why is it that reading your response seems fairly... assuming & slightly rude? My entire series of posts on this subject has been an attempt at being balanced. I may not always succeed as much as I'd like, but I do try, and i do tend to read over and make sure I'm not just "reacting" (therapy thing) instead of being a rational adult.

And frankly, if you don't like the thread you're not required to read it. I certainly don't expect you to "fall in line and agree with me." Honestly, that's kind of offensive, but whatever.

What I expect - or at least hope for - is that people posting can try and be reasonably polite, and to understand that, in a world where gaming is a form of entertainment - and not an entirely cheap one - a company is going to have to give me a reason to purchase their product.

 

if i find something that seems wrong or unappealing about the game, weather it's how they handle a quest (personal opinion, won't/shouldn't effect sales or their handling of future games) or the quality of their quality control teams, i will talk about them. So will thousands of other people. That's kind of the point of these boards, isn't it? To discuss skyrim in its' entirety - it's good, and it's bad, ideas to improve it, what beth did right. And what they did wrong.

 

Also, if you read my post...

 

read these 2 lines again.

 

Just because I'm able to spend 100s of hours playing the game, does not mean finding major bugs won't tick me off. (Mind you, if they're a rare bug I don't care so much. It's the long lasting, seemingly-ignored ones that get to me.)

 

That in itself is essentially what you just told me to do, so thanks. -.-

Edited November 5, 2012 by slainia

[Stemin]

Why is it that reading your response seems fairly... assuming & slightly rude? My entire series of posts on this subject has been an attempt at being balanced. I may not always succeed as much as I'd like, but I do try, and i do tend to read over and make sure I'm not just "reacting" (therapy thing) instead of being a rational adult.

And frankly, if you don't like the thread you're not required to read it. I certainly don't expect you to "fall in line and agree with me." Honestly, that's kind of offensive, but whatever.

What I expect - or at least hope for - is that people posting can try and be reasonably polite, and to understand that, in a world where gaming is a form of entertainment - and not an entirely cheap one - a company is going to have to give me a reason to purchase their product.

 

if i find something that seems wrong or unappealing about the game, weather it's how they handle a quest (personal opinion, won't/shouldn't effect sales or their handling of future games) or the quality of their quality control teams, i will talk about them. So will thousands of other people. That's kind of the point of these boards, isn't it? To discuss skyrim in its' entirety - it's good, and it's bad, ideas to improve it, what beth did right. And what they did wrong.

 

Oh the irony of calling my post assuming and then labeling it rude and offensive. :rolleyes:

[slainia]

well no offense, but read what you said to me. you have no idea what what my full thoughts on the game are, but you tell me i should be more appreciative and realistic, as a *human being* no less. Thanks, but i am. Theres a whole lotta opinion behind those words. If you've read other posts you might see that i try and see both sides of bethesda games. it doesn't matter, though, I'm not gonna argue the point.

[Stemin]

well no offense, but read what you said to me. you have no idea what what my full thoughts on the game are, but you tell me i should be more appreciative and realistic, as a *human being* no less. Thanks, but i am. Theres a whole lotta opinion behind those words. If you've read other posts you might see that i try and see both sides of bethesda games. it doesn't matter, though, I'm not gonna argue the point.

 

Well maybe my words didn't pop out at you the way they were supposed to, but perhaps next time since you don't know me from sam you should ask for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions?

 

For starters you seem to take my post out of context and assume it's entirely directed at you, when our discussion was to me, clearly based on the conversation that started with me addressing Janus, and then Ginny who decided to address what I said.

 

If you're going to continue a conversation that someone else started, and defend some of what they said, then you can't assume everything is going to be directed at you.

 

All that aside, what I was trying to say was just what you claimed you were doing in your next post: Taking the good with the bad.

 

The problem with the people in this thread is if the bad outweighs the good, what are they doing here? Why are they playing the game hour after hour?

 

It's kinda like the old saying, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Except we all know nobody wants to listen to a squeaking wheel, particularly if the car has run great for 100,000 miles.

 

When I do the sums in my head, the good in Skyrim far outweighs the bad. I feel I can without becoming a "fanboy" discuss the bad in Skyrim and come to the conclusion that Bethesda did an overall good job (specifically in addressing bugs). I feel that a lot of people have cloudy judgement because they've made modifications to their versions and I don't see any reason why Bethesda should be held responsible for that.

 

I don't know how anyone running a modded version of the game has any kind of credibility in calling the game buggy to begin with since they're not running the stock game.

 

If you want to address what you see as problems with the game, all well and good, but some of these people seem to take it as their personal mission in life to put down Bethesda as much as they can every time they see something new come out, and I for one find it getting very old.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Stemin

[slainia]

l was only referring to your last post. as for asking for clarification, thats why i made the comment about the post seeming rude, but anyway.