Spoilers from beta 1.8

[ginnyfizz]

You really have no understanding of the costs needed to maintain a game company do you?

 

And despite all these game breaking bugs you mention, I haven't gotten a one, so I really don't see where you are coming from.

 

 

Yes I do actually, being involved on the Kickstarter thing means I get regular updates of how much this and that costs. And Bethesda are no struggling little indie company, they are a big corp who have milked us of our readies. They can afford it. Of course if YOU haven't got any bugs, that means no-one else has, right? You need to take your head out of the fanboy sand (or wherever) and look at the issues that people are reporting having just with the first part of the Dawnguard Vampire side - can't land when doing the Vampire Lord tutorial at which point you grind to a halt and have to resort to the console, except that can break Harkon resulting in yet more console later. I am not the only person that happened to and that is a game breaker for sure.

 

And you don't even acknowledge that the patch which fixes next to nothing has royally trashed Skyrim modding as the CK now will not work properly. Nice job Bugthesda.

[Inquart]

Bethesda does not work for us, not at all, neither do movie makers, or novelists, they make things they want to, in the way they want to, and its up to the people to decide if they also want to experience someone elses world.

 

But without us - without our money and without us still buying their buggy games for some reason - they wouldn't even exist as a game company.

 

As for ME3 - I really liked the entire game, but that ending in its original form was more than awful. It's not about Shepard dying at the end if you choose to control the Reapers or do that silly organic-synthetic merger, I even liked it that way - great hero giving up his life and all that - or the Galaxy being effectively decimated (Mass Relays destroyed in every ending, all those races stranded on Earth); in my opinion, all that "popular rage" was rather about ignoring everything the company itself showed us in two previous games, about all the plot holes and contradictions, about lack of explanations, you know? I'm glad they didn't go with that stupid Indoctrination theory, but I prefer to know that Shepard didn't die for nothing after all that fighting, to know that his squadmates, friends and allies are all well and sound and - as I have chosen the new Control Ending - to see my Paragon-driven Commander Shepard as some kind of galactic god and all-powerful guardian. Of course I respect your thoughts on that matter, but I think that we as players can demand from either Bethesda or BioWare to keep their level, the level they were keeping for all those years and they're supposed to keep, if you know what I mean.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Inquart

[JanusForbeare]

But without us - without our money and without us still buying their buggy games for some reason - they wouldn't even exist as a game company.

 

We buy them because they have no competition. When you have an effective monopoly - as Bethesda does in the open-world, live-action RPG genre - there is no need to innovate, or even release working products.

[sajuukkhar9000]

But without us - without our money and without us still buying their buggy games for some reason - they wouldn't even exist as a game company.

That does not mean they work for you, or are subject to your whims.

 

We buy them because they have no competition. When you have an effective monopoly - as Bethesda does in the open-world, live-action RPG genre - there is no need to innovate, or even release working products.

And wonderfully enough they manage to do both.

 

Beyond the odd "wolf not howling" I have yet to have any major bugs in the base game, or either DLC, and I know plenty of people who have had similar experiances.

 

the games bugginess is vastly over exaggerated to due the always true phrase of "the smaller the minority, the more vocal they are."

Edited November 1, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[JanusForbeare]

There's another phrase that's always true... "Opinions are like a******s, we all have one, and they all stink."

[Inquart]

We buy them because they have no competition. When you have an effective monopoly - as Bethesda does in the open-world, live-action RPG genre - there is no need to innovate, or even release working products.

 

And that's why nowadays they (the game companies) got cocky and think they can throw anything at us, even the biggest and most buggy sh*t (which Skyrim of course is not, even with all its flaws), and we're supposed to praise them to heavens for that.

 

That does not mean they work for you, or are subject to your whims.

 

They work for all of us as players and customers. To put it simply - they have to relase their games, it's how they make all their money, but we don't have to buy them to have them, if you get me.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Yes I do actually, being involved on the Kickstarter thing means I get regular updates of how much this and that costs. And Bethesda are no struggling little indie company, they are a big corp who have milked us of our readies. They can afford it. Of course if YOU haven't got any bugs, that means no-one else has, right? You need to take your head out of the fanboy sand (or wherever) and look at the issues that people are reporting having just with the first part of the Dawnguard Vampire side - can't land when doing the Vampire Lord tutorial at which point you grind to a halt and have to resort to the console, except that can break Harkon resulting in yet more console later. I am not the only person that happened to and that is a game breaker for sure.

 

And you don't even acknowledge that the patch which fixes next to nothing has royally trashed Skyrim modding as the CK now will not work properly. Nice job Bugthesda.

You are aware the CK has to be updated every single time there is a a game update right?

 

This isn't something that happened with this patch, its something that has to be done EVERY TIME THE GAME UPDATES, it isn't a bug, it's because the CK is on version 1.6, and doesn't know how to use the 1.8 files.

 

What you are doing is essentially trying to run a windows 8 game on windows XP, it doesn't work because of a version mismatch, it has nothing to do with bugs of any kind, and this has happened, every, single, update.

 

Now you blaming Bethesda for bugs, that aren't even bugs.

 

 

 

And no, kickstarter, is in no way shape or form, like running a major game company, and the expenses that major game companies have are enormous. to say they have the budget to fix the game is false in entirety.

Edited November 1, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Kraeten]

I'll say this last bit, and then I'm really done. I doubt I could stomach reading another garbage "Oh they're just entitled" argument. I get enough of that horse**** from conservatives. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with demanding better from such a successful studio like Bethesda especially after they've released the buggiest Elder Scrolls game yet. When we let them get away with this kind of laziness, we're telling them it doesn't make any difference what condition their product is in upon release. Sure they share the Creation Kit with us, but cleaning up after their incompetence shouldn't be our job. It's theirs. Period.

[ginnyfizz]

Yes yes,sajuukkhar9000, we know all that, we do understand about version compatibility, some of us have been around a long time, we do have minds and the problem is, we use them to MOD, which we now CAN'T. It would hardly have been too much to ask for them to hold off the 1.8 update until the CK update was ready. We are not saying it is a bug, we are just saying it is asinine. Or that they are trying to stuff modding. Or both.

 

So, are you actually accusing the numerous folks who have had atrocious bugs of telling porkie pies, just because you have not had any?

 

Me, making something on Kickstarter, whatever are you talking about? I am talking about the serious bucks thing that Obsidian are doing and for which there was a Kickstarter, publicised on here and about which many of us, me included, squeed all the way to our wallets and threw our wonga at? You know, the thing that is going to be the next Baldurs Gate/Neverwinter Nights (goes off to squee again...), in other words, HUGE amounts of dosh? We get regular updates about how much money (A LOT) is going where with that.

 

A little less condescension on your part would be nice. The fact that we do not agree with your point of view does not make us stupid or mean that we do not grasp how updates work. Unfortunately we do know how Bethesda work, which is what worries us.

 

@Kraeten :thumbsup:

[sajuukkhar9000]

Yes yes,sajuukkhar9000, we know all that, we do understand about version compatibility, some of us have been around a long time, we do have minds and the problem is, we use them to MOD, which we now CAN'T. It would hardly have been too much to ask for them to hold off the 1.8 update until the CK update was ready. We are not saying it is a bug, we are just saying it is asinine. Or that they are trying to stuff modding. Or both.

 

So, are you actually accusing the numerous folks who have had atrocious bugs of telling porkie pies, just because you have not had any?

 

Me, making something on Kickstarter, whatever are you talking about? I am talking about the serious bucks thing that Obsidian are doing and for which there was a Kickstarter, publicised on here and about which many of us, me included, squeed all the way to our wallets and threw our wonga at? You know, the thing that is going to be the next Baldurs Gate/Neverwinter Nights (goes off to squee again...), in other words, HUGE amounts of dosh? We get regular updates about how much money (A LOT) is going where with that.

 

A little less condescension on your part would be nice. The fact that we do not agree with your point of view does not make us stupid or mean that we do not grasp how updates work. Unfortunately we do know how Bethesda work, which is what worries us.

 

@Kraeten :thumbsup:

So what your saying is that Bethesda should deny all the non-mod makers, which is to say the majority of the user base, an update that increases performance, and fixes some minor bugs, just because the small minority of users that consitute modders don't want to wait a couple days for a CK update?

 

I'm sorry but the needs of the average user far outway the needs of the mod makers, to believe anything else, is selfish.

 

 

When you said

Yes I do actually, being involved on the Kickstarter thing means I get regular updates of how much this and that costs.

I took that to mean you have some kickstarter project.

 

And don't get me started on the atrocious company that is Obsidian, that they continue to make games is revolting given their past history, and given that they lack the funding of Bethesda, and have games that are even more buggy then Bethesda's on average, I have very low hopes for a stable game from them.

Edited November 1, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000