modder3434 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Actually no it didnt, at all. If you RPed and stuck to your build you never maxed out all attributes. Mathematically impossible. Had over 200 builds in Ob alone, not one had maxed attributes. Attributes, skills and perks is more variables than just skills and perks. It's already known and proven there was more diversity in attributes (more variables). More simple math really. Not to mention a character with the same perks and skill in Sky, does the same anyway, which usually ends up happening when you have a lot of builds, or a overlapping skill. So yeah, Attributes skills and perks>just skills and perks. There was nothing wrong with attributes, just people that didn't RP and people that parrot Bethesda's silly PR. It's a known fact that removing it removes more variables and by extension diversity, again more simple math for anybody that can count to 100. Nothing can change the simple math of 3>2. I'd have to wonder if these people even played the old games. Speaking as one who does play the old games, i have to say Skyrim was my favorite way to level and diversify my character. I honestly found the leveling in previous ES games to be more of a chore then anything, and if you started off on the warrior path, and got to level 20 and wanted to indulge in magic, it was a pain. Yes it is math based and it is more of a tradional RPG then Skyrim. With that being said if i want to add up my character's attributes and make it a giant numbers game, i'll go and play Dungeons and Dragons. Edited October 31, 2012 by modder3434 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enatiomorph Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Attributes were never math intensive though. Nothing complicated about picking a number at level up. As for changing a build mid game, I dont humor such notions as an RPer. If I want a new build, I'll make a new build. You cant argue that attributes plus skills plus perks is less diversity than just skills and perks. Preference is preference, I'm just going on what gives the most diversity and character uniqueness, and 3 is more than 2. If Fallout got rid of attributes would there magically be more diversity? No, so why would the ES be any different? Why wouldn't people want the best of all worlds? More of everything? But in the end, I miss spell creation and see it's removal as a bigger problem than attributes. Modders have tried (almost successfully) to bring back attributes. A spell creation mod though is extremely unlikely. Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkner1992 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Much better Main Quest. The main quest in Oblivion was horrible, it was cliché, the antagonists were lame (after an antagonist like Dagoth Ur in Morrowind I expected someone in Oblivion who was better than that pantsy Mankar Camoran), and worst of all, it wasn't even about you, it was about Martin! You, the player, were a secondary character in the story. Seriously, what were they thinking with that? :S Edited October 31, 2012 by Falkner1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzburg Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Actually no it didnt, at all. If you RPed and stuck to your build you never maxed out all attributes. Mathematically impossible. Had over 200 builds in Ob alone, not one had maxed attributes. Attributes, skills and perks is more variables than just skills and perks. It's already known and proven there was more diversity in attributes (more variables). More simple math really. Not to mention a character with the same perks and skill in Sky, does the same anyway, which usually ends up happening when you have a lot of builds, or a overlapping skill. So yeah, Attributes skills and perks>just skills and perks. There was nothing wrong with attributes, just people that didn't RP and people that parrot Bethesda's silly PR. It's a known fact that removing it removes more variables and by extension diversity, again more simple math for anybody that can count to 100. Nothing can change the simple math of 3>2. I'd have to wonder if these people even played the old games. You might not realise it personally but your "everyone who disagrees iz dum" routine is pretty insulting. This is the thread about what people like about skyrim. Some of us happen to much prefer parts of the game that you seem to not like. Calling into question our intelligence does not make your opinion more valid than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Much better Main Quest. The main quest in Oblivion was horrible, it was cliché, the antagonists were lame (after an antagonist like Dagoth Ur in Morrowind I expected someone better in Oblivion better than a pantsy like Mankar Camoran), and worst of all, it wasn't even about you, it was about Martin! You, the player, were a secondary character in the story. Seriously, what were they thinking with that? :S Well I don't know about being a secondary character. To me at least the the main character has always represented a catalyst for great change. He was never anything more than that, which is why while we might be instrumental in bringing down some great evil we're never taking on the role of King or any other higher role that really has influence. Which is again the case in Skyrim. Sure we kill Alduin, but what happens next? There's still a war going on for the future of Tamriel after all. But that is the Emperor's story, or Ulfric's depending on who you side with. Honestly, I thought Alduin was a giant windbag. He's supposed to be The World Eater, yet all he manages to do is destroy one tiny Imperial fort. Mankar Camoran and Mehruns on the other hand sacked Kvatch, a well fortified city resting atop a plateau then later besieged the Imperial City. Not too shabby really. Was it cliché? Sure, but it was an old story retold well enough that I enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzburg Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Much better Main Quest. The main quest in Oblivion was horrible, it was cliché, the antagonists were lame (after an antagonist like Dagoth Ur in Morrowind I expected someone better in Oblivion better than a pantsy like Mankar Camoran), and worst of all, it wasn't even about you, it was about Martin! You, the player, were a secondary character in the story. Seriously, what were they thinking with that? :S Well I don't know about being a secondary character. To me at least the the main character has always represented a catalyst for great change. He was never anything more than that, which is why while we might be instrumental in bringing down some great evil we're never taking on the role of King or any other higher role that really has influence. Which is again the case in Skyrim. Sure we kill Alduin, but what happens next? There's still a war going on for the future of Tamriel after all. But that is the Emperor's story, or Ulfric's depending on who you side with. Honestly, I thought Alduin was a giant windbag. He's supposed to be The World Eater, yet all he manages to do is destroy one tiny Imperial fort. Mankar Camoran and Mehruns on the other hand sacked Kvatch, a well fortified city resting atop a plateau then later besieged the Imperial City. Not too shabby really. Was it cliché? Sure, but it was an old story retold well enough that I enjoyed it. Yeah main quest was poor. Enjoyed Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves though. The Daedric quests were much better. Side quests were pretty good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkner1992 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Much better Main Quest. The main quest in Oblivion was horrible, it was cliché, the antagonists were lame (after an antagonist like Dagoth Ur in Morrowind I expected someone better in Oblivion better than a pantsy like Mankar Camoran), and worst of all, it wasn't even about you, it was about Martin! You, the player, were a secondary character in the story. Seriously, what were they thinking with that? :S Well I don't know about being a secondary character. To me at least the the main character has always represented a catalyst for great change. He was never anything more than that, which is why while we might be instrumental in bringing down some great evil we're never taking on the role of King or any other higher role that really has influence. Which is again the case in Skyrim. Sure we kill Alduin, but what happens next? There's still a war going on for the future of Tamriel after all. But that is the Emperor's story, or Ulfric's depending on who you side with. Honestly, I thought Alduin was a giant windbag. He's supposed to be The World Eater, yet all he manages to do is destroy one tiny Imperial fort. Mankar Camoran and Mehruns on the other hand sacked Kvatch, a well fortified city resting atop a plateau then later besieged the Imperial City. Not too shabby really. Was it cliché? Sure, but it was an old story retold well enough that I enjoyed it. Yes, but here's the difference: in Skyrim, you are instrumental to the story, nobody else can do what you're supposed to do (vanquish Alduin) other than you, because you are the Dragonborn, you are the hero, the story is about you. Now with that in mind, tell me this: can you think of anything the main character of Oblivion did that couldn't have been done by somebody else. Let's say instead of sending you, Uriel Septim gave the Amulet of Kings to Baurus and sent him on the quest to find Martin and repel the Daedra invasion. Can you think of anything that you did in Oblivion that Baurus couldn't have done just as easily if not more so? I await your response. EDIT: Now, you are correct when you say the player is just a peon for his side in the Civil War questline. The real heroes of that story are General Tullius and Ulfric, depending on whom you choose to join. But that's ok, I don't mind that, because that's just a side-story, it doesn't have to be about me. As for Mankar Camoran, man, he just came across as a wimp to me... and that monologue before you fight him at the end is just plain pathetic... :P Edited October 31, 2012 by Falkner1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefPie Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The main quest was definitely less interesting than Oblivion's. Alduin had a massive build up and was beaten by a guy who could learn the thu'um faster than everyone else and was fortold by some reclusive soldiers a few hundred years before. In Oblivion, you were a wheel in the machine. You stopped, it all stopped. The way Alduin was defeated, it seemed as if anyone could really have done it - Ulfric? You teach him the shout and he'll do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloHunts Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Maybe that is why a lot of people are unhappy with Skyrim, the only person you can admire for the defeat of Alduin is ourselves, no other character to look up to. a lot of people admire Martin for sacrificing himself to defeat Cameron (we surely could not do it). Maybe if we could have helped a Hero from the game to defeat him, Skyrim might be better, more emersive. maybe the next DLC will be something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Can you think of anything that you did in Oblivion that Baurus couldn't have done just as easily if not more so? I await your response. I might agree if not for one part you're not addressing, the fact that the Emperor chose YOU to take the amulet. "You...I've seen you..let me see your face. You are the one from my dreams, then the stars were right, and this is the day." "My dreams grant me no opinions of success. Their compass ventures not beyond the doors of death. But in your face, I behold the sun's companion. The dawn of Akatosh's bright glory may banish the coming darkness. With such hope, and with the promise of your aid, my heart must be satisfied." To be chosen by the Septim line, is no small thing. Edited October 31, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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