Arthmoor Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 You obviously don't understand what the issue is then. If you make a mod, and all you use is Skyrim.esm as a master, your mod will be altering the game as though this were still November of 2011. That file HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED since then. Any official fixes that have come along in the interim will be overridden by your mod if you happen to edit something they later fixed, and thus you will be cancelling out the change. So no, you WILL NOT be benefiting from Update.esm by doing what you're doing. True, you are not required to make your mod use it, but willfully ignoring what it is you're doing is a disservice to your users. It's just plain bad practice to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bond123 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Skyrim has been updated several times. My most recent update was this past week. You are saying that any mod posted must have a dependency on both skyrim.esm and update.esm or that modder is guilty of breaking games. Update.esm and its attendant bsa are simply additions to everyone's game and are used regardless of whether someones mod contains a dependency to it. The game still uses it's resources. If I wish a mod dependent on any .esm, I tick it when I load the CK and start my mod with it active. I will wait till the new material is available and see if my game is broken. I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Update.esm and its attendant bsa are simply additions to everyone's game and are used regardless of whether someones mod contains a dependency to it. The game still uses it's resources.Not if you've caused the edit that those resources go to to end up blocked. Load your stuff up in TES5Edit some time, with Update.esm in between, and you'll be able to tell immediately if you've got a conflict. Plugins don't magically shed the potential for conflict just because. These conflicts exist, the problem is real, and ignoring them causes problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bond123 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 When one makes a mod one necessarily modifies skyrim.esm, therefore skyrim.esm is a necessary dependency. However if I do not use any of the material provided by update.esm in my mod, why should I have a dependency on it? I have several mods I have worked on extensively and have not garnered a dependency on update.esm. One of my more recent mods did end up with such a dependency. I removed it with no ill effect...and some time ago, even before this latest update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephenee13 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 When one makes a mod one necessarily modifies skyrim.esm, therefore skyrim.esm is a necessary dependency. However if I do not use any of the material provided by update.esm in my mod, why should I have a dependency on it? I have several mods I have worked on extensively and have not garnered a dependency on update.esm. One of my more recent mods did end up with such a dependency. I removed it with no ill effect...and some time ago, even before this latest update. The point is that Update.esm modifies a slew of records from Skyrim.esm (thats its entire point, so they don't have to change the original ESM at all, they just change the Update), so if your mod touches something in Skyrim.esm that was altered by Update.esm, anything in that record you DON'T change will have the wrong value. Especially since Wrye Bash is currently incapable of bashing anything other than leveled lists, you can't depend on that to carry these things through. You lose nothing by having the dependency, and potentially risk messing things up if you don't. Your resistance to this seems to indicate that you don't fully understand how changes are made by mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoSxorpio Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 The biggest offense here, imo, is suggesting users fallback to a deprecated tool like TESVSnip to do this. If modders started doing this on Friday, by now there would be crazy loads of troubleshooting threads for why there game suddenly doesn't work. I've already seen suggestion to change the version number in the header...for update.esm. I just don't understand the reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaWoIF Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 While not intrested in breaking the dependence of the update esm i am interested in breaking the DG one as any mod that may have used a DG asset or uses it a as master will not load in the CK and that includes my mod. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/821467-last-update-killed-creation-kit-help/page__st__30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyn Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 The Update is out now :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts