Putting things last in load order is a nightmare. Goddamnit!

[rmm200]

I like your dad's sayings better than mine. Maybe just because - Latin.

[ThatHomelesGuy]

 

 

 

@1ae0bfb8

First of all, did you decide to be a d***head when you woke up this morning or were just born a d***head?

 

Second of all read what people have written before replying because when you don't you look kike a dumbf*#@.

 

I solved the issue by doing as you suggested and thanked you for the help, I even marked your reply as the best answer.

I also didn't set up 300 rules but it seemed to me at the time that I was expected to set up a rediculous number of rules because there is no obvious way to solve the very real issue of not being able to do something as simple as manually change your load order in what I presumed was the most stable/non-obsolete mod manager available. Turns out it's pretty bad at what it's supposed to do.

Why so butt-hurt friend? Am I to respect you for your 15 years of modding or something?

 

You posted up quite the diatribe which was fixed in about 10 seconds, if you'd stopped trying to make Vortex into NMM. It's a common rookie mistake though, and I'm glad you got there in the end.

 

Vortex is ace if you take the time to learn what it does and how it does it. Takes all the effort out of sorting plugins, let's LOOT do all the work and then gives you the extra, final say with group and mod manipulation if you're not happy that something is in the wrong place.

 

No need for thanks, although I'd question the sincerity given your later posts. Remember, this isn't a forum exclusively for you, other people may be having the same issue as you, hence the reply of move the group - don't make 300-something individual rules. Look at the bigger picture my friend. As a modder of 15 years experience, you should know that other people may also struggle moving files from one directory to another.

 

First of all, get off the modding experience thing. That's just the d***head attitude I'm on about and realy speaks to your own ego that you think it's about clout. I stated as much to point out that I do not need vortex to cook my meals for me, and that while it's nice to have a hand in the kitchen sometimes I prefer to cook my meals my way or add ingredients in the order I wish since I've been cooking meals FOR MYSELF for a very long time before vortex was arround to "help" (even if I undercook something from time to time that is on me and I am content with that).

 

I do not have a problem with Vortex doing things automagically for the average user. It's great and makes things easier and makes mods more accessable to more people, to a point. But rules and groups are not a way to fine tune anything. At best they are a suggestion you can make to Vortex and take extra steps over say for example, drag and dropping your load order directly. Leaving the user making educated guesses at how Vortex will recieve those suggestions and how it will make an educated guess on your needs based on those suggestions. And as a programmer myself I can tell you it is folly to rely on a piece of software to not make mistakes and even more so to believe it can go without manual intervention at some level. Your faith in Vortex is far greater than it's ability to perform. Remember people make mistakes and people build software, when you expect software to make dynamic decisions it is not infallable as the programmers expectations and instructions are abstracted to the sofware and become to a point unpredictable especially to the end user who is expected to have absolutelly no idea how the processs under the hood works. This is something quite important to know and is something that is taught in software engineering degrees. The fact that Vortex expedites control over certain process to an algorythm without allowing the user any direct control is a fair criticism and one that seems to trigger the ego of those like yourself who cannot accept that criticism can be made of something they have too much faith in. Very similar to religious dogma if you ask me.

 

Other MM in the past have removed the barrier of manual installs to folders without sacrificing the users ability to easily make fine adjustments. Vortex and it's developers seem to operate under the assumption that a mallet can be used to drive a screw so they give the user a mallet. Doesn't matter how smart or usefull that mallet may be it cannot tighten a screw precisely when precission is needed. And when it does it may can take much more time, effort and trial and error on the users part to achieve the precission they desire. Something that can be done easily with manual load ordering is now a multistep process in Vortex.

 

And I don't want Vortex to be NMM. I want the ease of access of Vortex (such as magnet linking and quick load ordering) with the ability to make manual adjustments easily like every other MM out there that has gone before.

 

But anyway since you are holding on to even the already explained 300 rules thing I think this will go over your ego and all the points I make will be simply missed by you.

 

why still so butt-hurt friend?

 

No ego here, no points missed. I gave you the solution to your problem in one post. Point for my follow up is, as i said, other people who may not have 15 years of modding experience may have the same issue as you had and may try to use vortex in some ass-backwards way and get frustrated because they missed how easy it is.

 

My message is, relax, it's all good, you figured out the rookie mistake and corrected it. No-one knows everything, and sometimes a helping hand is all you need to go on down the path to modding bliss. Be happy. Think of everything after the solution is for someone else who isn't you. Can you do that? Good lad.

 

Much love and happy modding my friend. xox.

 

Ok I get it you were born a dickhead. Your patronising attitude is not helping you any. You can keep saying the same thing again when you know I've already read what you've said if you like. And you didn't say that you just kept trying to take digs at me over me mentioning my experience in modding like an insolent prat.

 

I'm not interested in what you or your ego have to say at this point.

[ThatHomelesGuy]

This also applies here - "Ne respondeas stulto iuxta stultitiam suam ne efficiaris eo similis."

Are you all here just to be dickheads?

 

That's awesome.

[HadToRegister]

 

This also applies here - "Ne respondeas stulto iuxta stultitiam suam ne efficiaris eo similis."

Are you all here just to be dickheads?

 

That's awesome.

 

 

 

Her comment was aimed at all of US who are wasting our time responding to YOU.

 

(Augusta is the peacekeeper around here, she would never instigate anything, but YOU seem to take EVERYTHING as an affront to YOU)

 

You REALLY need to learn to chill out and stop being so combative, hostile, and angry about EVERYTHING

 

Her comment was just one, of several moments in all of our lives, where something didn't revolve around YOU.

 

[ThatHomelesGuy]

 

 

This also applies here - "Ne respondeas stulto iuxta stultitiam suam ne efficiaris eo similis."

Are you all here just to be dickheads?

 

That's awesome.

 

 

 

Her comment was aimed at all of US who are wasting our time responding to YOU.

 

(Augusta is the peacekeeper around here, she would never instigate anything, but YOU seem to take EVERYTHING as an affront to YOU)

 

You REALLY need to learn to chill out and stop being so combative, hostile, and angry about EVERYTHING

 

Her comment was just one, of several moments in all of our lives, where something didn't revolve around YOU.

 

 

What is up with people on this forum that they feel the need to throw shade and try insult people?

I asked for some help with load order and it's just shade and attitude from all of you.

All I did was say that I think it could be more intuative and give the user more control if they want it and the response form this community is just to take jabs or try mock me.

It's toxic. It's like nobody on here can just disagree and move on, instead it's just shitty attitudes and sly digs.

 

Even Augustas first comment was to imply I was an idiot. Just because she wrote it in latin doesn't excuse the fact that it's a sly dig.

You can white knight for her if you like but i'm sure she can pick it up herself if she can lay it down. Up until now you've at least tried to be helpful and have a discussion whether you agree with me or not without trying to insult me in some way. But honestly the people on this forum need to take the sticks out of their own asses and drop the shitty attitudes. They just make the environment completely unwelcoming and combative themselves.

 

This has been a thoroughly shitty experience.

[HadToRegister]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Her comment was aimed at all of US who are wasting our time responding to YOU.

 

(Augusta is the peacekeeper around here, she would never instigate anything, but YOU seem to take EVERYTHING as an affront to YOU)

 

You REALLY need to learn to chill out and stop being so combative, hostile, and angry about EVERYTHING

 

Her comment was just one, of several moments in all of our lives, where something didn't revolve around YOU.

 

 

What is up with people on this forum that they feel the need to throw shade and try insult people?

I asked for some help with load order and it's just shade and attitude from all of you.

All I did was say that I think it could be more intuative and give the user more control if they want it and the response form this community is just to take jabs or try mock me.

It's toxic. It's like nobody on here can just disagree and move on, instead it's just shitty attitudes and sly digs.

 

Even Augustas first comment was to imply I was an idiot. Just because she wrote it in latin doesn't excuse the fact that it's a sly dig.

You can white knight for her if you like but i'm sure she can pick it up herself if she can lay it down. Up until now you've at least tried to be helpful and have a discussion whether you agree with me or not without trying to insult me in some way. But honestly the people on this forum need to take the sticks out of their own asses and drop the shitty attitudes. They just make the environment completely unwelcoming and combative themselves.

 

This has been a thoroughly shitty experience.

 

 

I made a HELPFUL lengthy post about how I manage the load order, NOT ONCE DID YOU ACKNOWLEDGE YOU READ IT, and instead IGNORED IT, and only focused on, and attacked anybody who said something you didn't like instead.

 

I tried to help, more than once, I even joked with you...yet you just keep focusing on everything negative.

 

ONCE AGAIN...

RE: AUGUSTA....(As I clearly explained in my response to you, which you CLEARLY ignored, and decided to take as hostile)

 

HER COMMENT WAS AIMED AT THE PEOPLE WHO KEEP RESPONDING TO YOUR HOSTILITY, AND HOSTILE POSTS, AND IN NO WAY WAS HER COMMENT DIRECTED AT YOU.

 

 

 

 

[Rattledagger]

 

All I did was say that I think it could be more intuative and give the user more control if they want it

If you've never learned how to put a plugin into another Group I would definitely agree Vortex plugins-tab can be difficult to understand, since where's no indication you can change the Group to another Group. Having a direct help-page that example was called "How to load plugin A after plugin B in Vortex" could definitely be an advantage, since going through Vortex help-tab (or whatever it's called) can be more difficult.

 

Also, https://wiki.nexusmods.com/index.php/Managing_your_Load_Order while includes the information, this page is made more difficult than it really need to be, at least with the simple "load A after B", since you don't normally need to create new groups but can use the already present groups.

 

So, Vortex can definitely become better at getting the information out, this goes on the intuitive-part.

 

The second part, "give the user more control" is on the other hand more controversial. For one, after you've learned how to put plugins into another Group, and especially if you've created two new Groups as shown in the wiki-example, it should be fairly clear Vortex can handle your desired plugin load order, without having to add another method of doing this.

 

For another, AFAIK everyone asking for "more control" seems to want manual drag-and-drop plugin sorting. I've already given one example why manual + rules-based sorting is inefficient, since even With only 3 plugins where's at least 4 possible meanings for moving one of them around, and this gives 4 different set of rules or group-assignments.

 

Another consideration With manual plugin load order is, while it's fast and easy to drag-and-drop A below B, in practice A and B frequently don't live in a vacuum but instead you can start With:

Master to A

A

Depends on A

Master to B

B

Depends on B

 

In Vortex this is easily handled by "put A into a later group than B is current in".

 

With manual on the other hand, if you just drag-and-drop A below B, you've got a broken plugin load order, since you've now got a plugin that load before it's master A. This means, you must at the minimum drag-and-drop two plugins to still have a valid plugin load order. Also worth mentioning, while you as a long-time mod user knows about masters etc., for someone starting-out it's doubtful they'll know anything about masters, meaning it's a very good chance they'll make the mistake of just drag-and-drop A below B and isn't aware this gives an invalid plugin load order. If these newcomers now sort again, where's a 50/50 chance A is reverted back to original location, meaning the time used on drag-and-drop is now wasted time.

 

A carefully created manual plugin load order can be broken by the next rules-based sorting, making the time used on manual sorting wasted time. Also, with only 3 plugins and drag-and-drop one of them, there's still 4 possible interpretations (not counting the case where order doesn't matter), meaning with 4 or more plugins you're already worse off, meaning having Vortex automatically convert the manual plugin load order into rules isn't really possible.

 

This means, LOOT master rules + custom rules is the best compromise, and is better than going for LOOT master rules + manual sorting if you ever add/remove some of the plugins and want to use LOOT master rules again.