Should arranged marriages be allowed?

[Tidus44]

snip

 

You made it quite clear that your standard is any cultural practice that directly or indirectly infringes on a person or that results in the abuse or exploitation of others, regardless of the choices made by those practising it, must be banned and eradicated because rights and freedoms supersede religious, cultural, historic, family honour, secular and/or whatever customs and cultural practices and because you find it morally unacceptable.

 

That's a pretty big and wide statement. So all I'm trying to find out is exactly how strict is your standard and at what point do you begin to be morally outraged and call for the complete ban of a cultural practice.

 

I'll stick to the arranged marriage issue so you don't get too confused.

 

At what point is it morally unacceptable to you, that you would be compelled to ban and eradicate the cultural custom of arranged marriage?

 

I'll set the scale ends here by suggesting one end being the child who is told by their parents a partner has been selected and the child is somewhat reluctant about the choice made. So the parents discuss this and reason with the child and the child accepts, even though the child is still somewhat apprehensive and reluctant, but is willing to go along with their parent's wishes.

 

At the other end of the scale the child is dragged kicking and screaming and beaten into submission in order for the marriage to take place.

 

So, just to clarify your position and your standard, exactly where, including either end and any point in between, do you find it so morally unacceptable it would be necessary for the protection of freedom and rights to force the complete ban of arranged marriage for everyone in a culture.

 

If you cannot clearly articulate exactly where the line must be drawn for acceptability or for the protection of rights and freedoms, and further, have every single human on earth agree with you, then rights and freedoms will never be protected equally. Just because you find something unacceptable does not mean everyone else does, and additionally they do not have to agree with your opinion no matter how morally outraged you may be.

To force others to comply with your standards of freedom and rights is to deny others their freedoms and rights to have a different opinion and a different standard.

 

As soon as you say you will force compliance with your standards, that when I start protecting the rights and freedoms of others.

 

The point I have is that the problem isn't with the cultural practice or the custom. It's how human beings apply the practice or the custom.

I'm not sure why you have stated I have made myself clear on the standard. And then ask where the line is drawn. It should be clear.

 

The line is drawn when a cultural practice infringes on someone's person, rights or freedom. Once it crosses that line it's done and it should be turned out like has happened with many cultural practices I don't see you trying to defend, slavery, biblical misogyny, human sacrifice etc.

 

 

So therefore, in a culture where no rights or freedoms are permitted to certain individuals, exactly how do you protect their rights and freedoms?

[Ghogiel]

If history has anything to tell us, what ever it is, it usually involves time and lots of people dieing fighting for their freedom.

[Tidus44]

If history has anything to tell us, what ever it is, it usually involves time and lots of people dieing fighting for their freedom.

 

And usually because of some outsider coming in and telling people how they should live. 50,000 years of culture and tradition, unimpeded by progress and technology.

[bben46]

We seem to be getting further and further off topic. The topic is on arranged mariages, NOT forced marriages, not slavery, not other freedoms.

 

This isn't reddit. Back on topic or it gets shut down.

[Ghogiel]

If history has anything to tell us, what ever it is, it usually involves time and lots of people dieing fighting for their freedom.

 

And usually because of some outsider coming in and telling people how they should live. 50,000 years of culture and tradition, unimpeded by progress and technology.

You're not making a very good argument.

 

What you are saying has nothing to do with weighing the merit of the actual cultural practice. But secondly if I understand you, just because it would take an outsider to come in and tell people that for example slavery is wrong, then we as humans should just over look is as ok, on the grounds that it's old and telling other people what to do is wrong.

 

Protecting the rights and freedom of all people equally supercedes the right of any cultural practices right to exist.

 

bben: no one wants to address the merits of arranged marriages it seems. The feminist argument is ignored, and that really is probably has the most weight against it as a cultural practice.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Ghogiel

[HeyYou]

From my perspective, there is no discernible difference between "forced marriage" and "arranged marriage". The latter is just a more politically correct term for the former. If either/both parties don't have a choice in the matter, is that not, by definition, forced? If either/both parties can say "no", then I don't see how anyones rights are being infringed.

 

Different cultures have different values. There is no 'one size fits all'. The US has yet to learn this, thinking we can force our values on other cultures significantly older than ours, at gunpoint. It just doesn't work.

[juderodney]

From my perspective, there is no discernible difference between "forced marriage" and "arranged marriage". The latter is just a more politically correct term for the former. If either/both parties don't have a choice in the matter, is that not, by definition, forced? If either/both parties can say "no", then I don't see how anyones rights are being infringed.

 

 

In a situation where the individual rights take precedence, an arranged marriage isn't simply not being given a choice, but the individual allowing his or her parents to make that decision for them whether it be through a sense of duty or simply respecting their decisions. In those respects a marriage can be arranged. It's just not enforceable under the law.

[HeyYou]

From my perspective, there is no discernible difference between "forced marriage" and "arranged marriage". The latter is just a more politically correct term for the former. If either/both parties don't have a choice in the matter, is that not, by definition, forced? If either/both parties can say "no", then I don't see how anyones rights are being infringed.

 

 

In a situation where the individual rights take precedence, an arranged marriage isn't simply not being given a choice, but the individual allowing his or her parents to make that decision for them whether it be through a sense of duty or simply respecting their decisions. In those respects a marriage can be arranged. It's just not enforceable under the law.

 

If there is no option to say "no", regardless of why, then it is indeed forced. It may be something a child does, simply because of duty, or whathaveyou, but, if they can't decline, they are indeed being forced.

[juderodney]

If there is no option to say "no", regardless of why, then it is indeed forced. It may be something a child does, simply because of duty, or whathaveyou, but, if they can't decline, they are indeed being forced.

 

Well then in a situation where the individual rights take precedence, the parents are obviously committing a crime. Throw the book at them!

 

Now please stop making like a broken record and follow Bben's warning about "forced" marriages, and try to find an argument against "arranged" marriages. Yes, there is a difference.

[Nintii]

By god, you will accept our system of rights and so-called social and individual freedoms whether you like it or not

because we say that the right to choose your own partner is the way we do things around here.

 

Yes Sirree Bob, that's right, and we've got a track record of um, well now let me see ... uhhhh, yeah well so what if

we've got a gazillion more teenage pregnancies, abortions, divorces and single parent homes than your culture, this

way of ours works right, because it's all about freedom.

 

Yeah, that's right we do ...................................................... knock, knock, knock ... huh ?.

 

< Hi there Pierre, whacha doin ? >

< Hiya Clovis, I'm just tryin to argue some sense into people's thick heads on the interwebz >

< on the interwebz huh ? >

< yeah man, yeah well I'm pointin out the right way and the wrong way of doin things, like gettin married and all >

< you sure are cleva Clovis >

<yeah well someone's gotta help them dude so I'm just givin them pointers man, they're like choosin their partners

before they even like 10 dude >

< you mean like they can do stuff at 10 ? >

< uh no dude, I dunno, but like I mean imagine your mama choosin old Suzie McAllistair or that fugly Higginson chick ... oh

frikkin no way man >

< damn dude that's like a dog bitin yer ......... >

<shhh my mama's home >

<sorry bro ... so do yer think that they're gonna choose someone ugly for each other dude ? >

< No, no I don't think so bro ... hmmm never thought of that >

< you remember Alice back in the fifth grade, man she was like green alien poop but dang now she's hotter than ol

Mario's El Chupacabra chilli sauce man >

< whooo weee oh damn yeah, she's hotter than devil ..... ? >

< you think they gonna make yer marry someone who's mean ? >

< you mean like a junk yard dog ... nah dont think so, in all prbability they're gonna get you some hotty >

<you mean like someone whose all kinda cute and delicious ? >

<Hmmm yeah Alice Cooper >

<Alice Cooper that singer guy are you frikkin nuts >

<no man, Alice, Alice the hotty Alice, the one with all the bumps in all da right places dude>

<oh yeah high five bro ... ohhh yeah Alice uh huh >

< so you can like boss them around and hit them and stuff if they don't listen ? >

<nah dude, they're all to close knit families for you to get away with that stuff man >

<yeah well you remember Jimmy his dad sent him to hospital man with a broken jaw>

< that's nothing, Mike and his bro were kicked out of the house for like the 100th time bro, I hear he's on crack

fulltime now man >

<you reckon them marriage fixers let that stuff happen in their communities ? >

< no way dude, I reckon they'll string you up ... shut up now man you startin to make sense with all your stable family

crap, I'm tryin to argue here ok ?! >

<sorry dude

 

And we're the West right, and you just know that we're a whole heap more intelligent than you ... after all the West is

spelt freedom ok ... you need to be free people and we're here to show you the way.

 

<hey mama how do yer spell ignoramouses ? >

< I dunno go ask yer father >

< which one mama ? >

< uh try number four, yeah number four he was the cleva one >

< uh sorry Clovis I need to be replyin so sit yer rump down and don't touch my new issue of uh, hey take yer

dirty hands off my magazeen >

< oh yeah she looks hot >

 

Yes well as I was saying, the true happy stable home is the one that was born out of freedom of choice, here you have

a democratic family where everyone is happy to do as they please because it's all about us and what makes me happy.

You have the freedom to choose and no one person has the authority to command you to do anything, this is our way

and it can be your way too.

As a matter of fact you can even divorce your parents if you want, that's how much freedom our system gives you.

So step out of the darkness, we have the answer, you to can be just as ......................... or free like us.

 

Well my fellow Nexusites, from their standpoint their way is the correct one ... the ways of the West to many in the world

are alien, unworkable, impractical and quite foolish.

 

It's "their" right to choose their ways ... forcing others to choose your way is no freedom at all, it's dictatorial and who gave

you or I (the West - of which I'm a part) the right to think and choose for others ?

Freedom to choose is exactly that ... freedom to choose.