[REQ].223 Pistol

[OniB]

managed to find this if it helps

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q150/ts...comparison1.jpg

 

LEGEND:

 

1: 22 LR (long rifle)

 

2: 22 WMR (22 magnum)

 

3: 9x19 Luger (The common 9 mill.)

 

4: 7.62x39mm (SKS and AK-47)

 

5: 30-30 Winchester

 

6: 45/70 Government

 

7: 7.62x51mm NATO (308 Winchester)

 

8: 303 British (Enfield rifles)

 

9: 8mm Mauser (7.92x57mm...Mauser rifles)

 

10: 30-06 Springfield

 

11: 300 Winchester Magnum

 

12: 410 Shotgun, 2 1/2 inch

 

13: 12 gauge buckshot, 2 3/4 inch

 

google is your friend

[vashts1985]

yeah but i need a specific reference between those 2 and i dont think google will provide

[CFriis87]

if one actually looked at that bolt-action, you'd realize that trying to chamber a round in it would just leave around 75% of the cartridge hanging out of the front of the gun. There is no barrel/chamber fitted to it.

 

That depends. The 'silver' piece on the side may not actually be the entire bolt, just a guide and cover plate for when the round is in place.

 

From the looks of the gun, it's a 5 shot revolver, AND a bolt action .223 sawed off. If somebody ever implements 'Fire Modes' type mod, this would be very useful. Honestly, I'd rather have a 12gauge single shot on top, and the revolver under it.

 

Of course it *LOOKS* like that, they put a .222's action on top of a functioning revolver with a huge bodykit and a bunch of other crap BECAUSE ITS A FREAKING HOLLYWOOD PROP GUN.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that the bolt might be the chamber, in whole or in part? Seriously? Have you ever taken a real gun apart before?

Nevermind the idea of firing 12 gauge from a handgun. Please, find a pistol that shoots 12 gauge and post video of you shooting it- I promise it'll be funny.

 

 

 

CFriis87, I can truly appreciate the thought you put into that drawing, I'm glad you're actually thinking about the mechanics behind how it might work. Thinking like that is what leads to true genius and I hope you keep it up!

 

But there's a few big problems with your idea. While making a mechanism to rotate the revolver cylinder as you pull and operate a bolt wouldn't be difficult, you're using a rimless .223 round and expecting it to stay in place inside a cylinder just by floating around in that space loose, and it'd have to be loose, or at least keywayed on one side of the cylinder's "chamber" so that the bolt could have an extractor claw that would pull the spent cartridge casing out of the firing chamber.

Secondly, you're only allowing a couple inches of barrel at most for a cartridge designed for a full-length rifle barrel. There's going to be a significant loss of velocity because of the short barrel, as well as a *huge* muzzle flash.

 

And finally, what possible advantage would it have to make a pistol require such an elaborate system to make a bolt-action handle operate a revolving cylinder after each shot?

You could simply CNC a 6 or 7 shot .223 cylinder that took care of headspacing and everything on its own accord, and use full moon clips to hold the ammunition together to allow for easy & fast ejection from the cylinder, and otherwise mimic a typical S&W style double/single action revolver and have a much simpler and more reliable mechanism, that was lighter, easier to maintain, and also allowed for a much longer barrel with the same overall length of the weapon.

 

In the future if you draw up stuff like that, keep asking yourself how you could make it simpler and accomplish the same function. The simpler the mechanism, the easier it is to make it smaller, lighter, and more reliable.

The general idea behind that drawing was to try and figure out a way that a real gun looking like the Blade Runner prop gun would work, and also use all the different elements in the design. That's why I felt I needed to try and combine a revolver barrel with bolt-action. The cartridges aren't floating freely in the revolver barrel, but held in place on the "speed loader thingy" a bit like cartridges would be held in place in the links of a belt-feed. When you need to load the gun, you would pull back the bolt, locking it in place, to allow the revolver drum to come out to the side, like on a normal revolver, you would then place the whole "speed loader thingy" in the revolver barrel and slap the whole thing back into place.

Then when you pull the trigger, the bolt would be released and come forward, pressing the cartridge forward, out of it's place in the revolver barrel and into the chamber just before the firing pin strikes and the bullet is fired. The pressure of the explosion would simultaneously press the bullet forward and the spent cartridge back into it's place in the barrel, this would also press the bolt back into it's locked position and make the gun ready to fire the next shot as soon as the next cartridge was aligned with the bolt and barrel.

I know this is overly complicated for a firearm, but as I said, I wanted to attempt to make a working amalgam similar to the amalgam that was used to make the prop gun.

It'd be much simpler to use a small box magazine in stead of the revolver barrel. And while it'd make the gun lighter and less bulky the length of the gun would remain unchanged due to the placement of the magazine, the size of the unfired cartridge and the need for a full size chamber in front of the magazine.

I do have a small amount of experience with real life guns from my short time in the Danish army where I learned to use and clean the Canadian version of the M16 (called M/95 in Denmark because we didn't adopt it until 1995... we've been using the HK G3 until then).

[CFriis87]

yeah but i need a specific reference between those 2 and i dont think google will provide

Well I've got a small box of 5.56mm NATO blanks (about 190 shots in total)... not sure where I'd be able to get a .44 round though. Denmark isn't that big on guns for civilians.

 

EDIT: I found this picture through google image search... http://phoenixgunlist.com/images/ammo.jpg

The round next to the .223 on the right is a .45, not quite there, but close.

 

EDIT 2: Here's another picture with different .44 rounds. Combining the two pictures should let you compare the .44 and the .223.

http://phoenixgunlist.com/images/masterchart.gif

[jaysus]

vash try wikipedia or if youre able to understand basic german waffenhq.de...

[Wreckless1]

wreckless1: you would not happen to be able to provide a pic of a .44 mag and a .223 remington standing next to each other for a size comparison would ya? :whistling:

 

Ask and ye shall receive:

 

http://turboninjas.com/gallery/d/44070-1/44_556_223_1.jpg

From left: Hornady .44 Mag 300 Gr XTP, Lake City 5.56x45 NATO M196 orange tip tracer, and PMP .223 Remington 62gr FMJ

 

http://turboninjas.com/gallery/d/44074-1/44_556_223_2.jpg

Same as first image, .44, 5.56, then .223 Rem

 

http://turboninjas.com/gallery/d/44077-1/44_556_223_3.jpg

In reverse - .223, 5.56, and .44 Mag

 

http://turboninjas.com/gallery/d/44080-1/Lineup.jpg

I was having fun, so what the heck.

 

From Left:

Dynamit-Nobel 7.65 (.32 ACP) 73gr FMJ

PMP 9mm NATO 115gr FMJ

Federal .40 S&W 155gr JHP+P

Winchester Super-X 10mm Auto 180gr FMJ

PMP .45 ACP 230gr FMJ (looks a little shorter in the pic, but is close to the same height as the 10mm Auto)

Hornady .44 Mag 300gr XTP

Hornady .50 AE 325gr XTP (my Father and I jokingly call these the 'zombie special' load LOL)

Lake City 5.56x45 NATO M196 55gr orange tip tracer

PMP .223 Remington 62gr FMJ

Samson/IMI .308 Winchester 150gr SP Match

Czech Milspec 7.62x51 NATO 165gr FMJ

.50 BMG Dummy Round fitted with a previously fired 680grn FMJ projectile thanks to some epoxy and a determined five year old (me.. a long time ago) that fished it out of a dirt backstop - note the rifling marks.

20x102 Electrically primed (Dummy of course) - As fired by the M61 Vulcan Cannon

 

Sorry the images aren't of better quality - I was fighting the low light and I'm far from what one would call a 'good' photographer. If you need more precise measurements I can happily supply them via a calibrated dial caliper

[vashts1985]

thanks man

[Wreckless1]

thanks man

 

Anytime - let me know if you need anything more specific, or any precise measurements.

 

You know I'm a shameless tramp for any chance to make *anything* that much more technically accurate :)

[jaysus]

i was kinda scared till i read the two on the right were dummies :D

crazy americans lol...

 

is the m61 vulcan that gun in the a10 warthog?

[Angelsilhouette]

i was kinda scared till i read the two on the right were dummies :D

crazy americans lol...

 

is the m61 vulcan that gun in the a10 warthog?

 

Nay, the Warthog fires a 30mm DU round (I think it's DU... Isn't it DU?)