Am I too manly?

[Vagrant0]

Just for a point of clarity... Most of the appearance centric types I've dated have tended to be boring as f*** once you get to know them, and often leave me wondering why I'm wasting my time sitting down and trying to get to find redeeming value in someone who appears to be more interested in their phone than what is actually happening around them. One of the reasons for this is usually because they invest so much time and effort into looking good that they don't have much left to actually develop character or depth of knowledge.

 

I'm pretty sure a similar situation exists on the other side since most of the types of guys I've seen and worked with that constantly had women after them tended to be denser than Ununtrium and mostly useless in things that actually matter. On one hand, it makes perfect sense since their stupidity often was played off as "cute", and most of these women probably enjoyed the fact that they were smarter and could easily manipulate... But in the grand scheme of things, stuff like that just leads to crappy relationships, incapable lifestyles, and other problems (ultimately stupid kids).

 

 

Facial appearance after 30 really doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot since the pretty ones have usually gotten knocked up a few times by several different, equally useless, men, lost the will or the financial ability to keep up with their appearance, or just have rather severe skin issues from using too much makeup in a futile attempt to try and cling to the one part of themselves that they value. What is important however is bodily health, since if you've managed to keep from turning into a shambling pile of lard by this point, it usually means that you either have a good physiology, or have reasonably good habits that will keep you physically capable for most of your life.

 

Men in general are usually pretty clueless when it comes to expressing our feelings or thoughts about those we are with since socially most of us are conditioned to withhold voicing these things as a part of trying to maintain friendships with other males. It's just the screwed up social dynamic that exists, and can be quite strong among those men who exist in a male dominated world where any "weakness" is usually penalized. That is not to excuse the lack of any statements of affection, but rather make mention of the fact that most men have to go through a very long and painful internal process just to say "I love you" and actually mean it.

 

Being girly probably has less to do with some sort of biological status than just what sorts of experiences and information you seek out. Just like anything else, as soon as you shift from something you know to something new, there is a feeling of being outside your comfort zone and feeling embarrassed or out of place. But a big part of getting past that is just sticking with it and adopting what new information and values you can agree with. Being a gamer, and approaching it with a gamer mindset could probably make this sort of thing easier to achieve if so desired. A person can really be whomever they want to be as long as they have the patience and strength to persevere and see it through.

 

But just be yourself and don't try to force things.

[Nintii]

I play PC games exactly the same ones you mentioned you do, I have dozens of games and not one one of them

is a cutesy girly game.

95 % of them are shooting, bloodthirsty very ungirly like games, heck I've even played Girls of the Playboy Mansion,

and being Hef I've done my *clearing my throat* duty as to what was required of me to grow my media empire.

I would have played Leisure Suit Larry if my brother never hid the game away.

And I'm still feminine, and so are a ton of other females.

 

Be yourself, beat the boys if you can, have fun ... and if the feeling - cos that's what it is - of not being too feminine

freaks you out, then every once in a while do something girly ... slip on a skirt, do your face, and don't let people bug

you if you choose to want to be a "normal" woman, and even stereotypical, what the heck is wrong with that.

 

These days it seems that you have to be some off the wall character to prove you're independant from the "world" and

not like them ... rubbish, being yourself means exactly that ... the freedom to choose whatever "you" want to be.

And yes that includes wearing pants and hanging out with guys if that's what flicks your switch.

[bben46]

The simplest, cheapest, easiest and most effective way to make your face look pretty is to smile. Look at someone and smile. Look happy. It will not only make you look pretty, it will make you feel pretty. Go ahead and try it. It doesn't cost anything and I guarantee it will make you feel better.

 

This works even if you smile at yourself in the mirror. But it works far better when you smile at someone else and they smile back. :thumbsup:

 

Do this every day, and as often as you get a chance. It will soon become a habit and you will feel better about yourself because all of those people are smiling at YOU. Here is one just for you. :biggrin:

[gunslinger6792]

The simplest, cheapest, easiest and most effective way to make your face look pretty is to smile. Look at someone and smile. Look happy. It will not only make you look pretty, it will make you feel pretty. Go ahead and try it. It doesn't cost anything and I guarantee it will make you feel better.

 

This works even if you smile at yourself in the mirror. But it works far better when you smile at someone else and they smile back. :thumbsup:

 

Do this every day, and as often as you get a chance. It will soon become a habit and you will feel better about yourself because all of those people are smiling at YOU. Here is one just for you. :biggrin:

 

that right there works best. nothing worse than person who doesn't smile makes you wondeer what you're doing wrong.

[Vindekarr]

Dignity, self respect, respect for others, all contribute far more to how people percieve you than being pretty. If you've got dignity and strength, people who's respect is worth something, will respect you, people who don't, probably waren't worth the effort. Looks don't matter, it's who you are that does. Be who you are, and be proud of that, Those that can't respect others for who they are, do not deserve any respect themselves.

 

Ben's right too, a smile makes a huge difference.

[DeadMansFist849]

This topic is one that just bugs me a lot because I'm a guy who's not "normal" either. I like shoes, cute animals, being in the kitchen, decorating myself, decorating all the things, and things that society says I'm not supposed to like in general. I do feel sad sometimes because of name-calling and stuff like that, so I do get it, in a way.

 

Basically the only point I want to get across is this

-you don't have to like things that other people say you're supposed to

-you don't have to modify yourself AT ALL to please others

-what matters is being a decent person and being happy

[Vagrant0]

This topic is one that just bugs me a lot because I'm a guy who's not "normal" either. I like shoes, cute animals, being in the kitchen, decorating myself, decorating all the things, and things that society says I'm not supposed to like in general. I do feel sad sometimes because of name-calling and stuff like that, so I do get it, in a way.

 

Basically the only point I want to get across is this

-you don't have to like things that other people say you're supposed to

-you don't have to modify yourself AT ALL to please others

-what matters is being a decent person and being happy

Very true... But missing the reason why those things are the way they are. Most of it boils down to socialization, or rather those behaviors and values you possess which help establish yourself as part of one group or another as a means of being cohesive with other members of that group. Men generally don't learn sports rosters and how well individual athletes play because they're deeply interested in knowing everything they can about a given set of sports... They learn it so that they can have a fantasy football league with their friends, have common topics to discuss, and have a legitimate excuse to get out of the house and do guy things. The reason why "talking shop" or discussing sports works so well as a male bonding activity is because the masculine mind tends to be most comfortable focused on singular activities and happiest when establishing confidence among a group; and these discussion topics allow one to either regale listeners with stories of hardship and revisit events where success was gained, or surprise them with depth of knowledge. It's successful and encouraged because it is much more universal among men of all cultures and walks of life as an established group of knowledge bases that will allow you gain familiarity with other men that you have had no contact with previously. This ultimately equates to fewer people in the immediate area who are likely to steal from you, or injure you, and in some occasions makes those people more likely to help out with minor inconveniences or to vouch for you. It is, generally speaking, a survival mechanic.

 

The same sorts of conversation points exist among women, but are often more varied by culture or status; among these topics related to young children, fashion, or local gossip are more commonly useful. The difference being that many of these have a stronger emphasis on emotional adjustment (complimenting eachother directly or indirectly), rather than as a means of establishing competency. This difference however is not exclusive to biology, but rather how receptive individuals are to compliments among that group. It works most often among women because females are more often socialized to offer compliments and take compliments; while males are more likely to express similar sentiments in indirect ways or through brief statements.

 

This is the reason why many activities or interests have either a masculine or feminine connotation. Those with a masculine connotation are usually those things related to work (labor, mechanics, hunting) or rule based constructs (sports, games, science, geekdom). Those with feminine connotations are usually those related to domestic tasks, child rearing, or personal care (appearance, health, social standing)*. These things were established this way partially due to brain differences between the sexes, and partially just as a course of a sexual division in labor which led women to have more frequent contact with other women, and men with more frequent contact with other men. There are of course differences from one culture to another for some things, depending on traditional views, but this is a good portion of the reason as to why tailoring is regarded with a feminine connotation despite most tailors being men.

 

 

But really, most of this is just archaic crap dragged over from previous generations that only continues to exist due to its connections with language and its self-serving nature. There's nothing wrong with just being yourself, just as there's nothing wrong with building familiarity with those things you usually don't associate with and generally growing as a person.

 

 

 

*Yes, aware that on both sides it is essentially work related topics, or things which are rule based, which is why women can just as easily "talk shop" or men have a lengthy discussion of fashion trends, provided they are in groups which respond well to those topics. The difference is that usually they aren't in those groups, or don't have the tendency to advertise that knowledge when other topics are available (due to internal social beliefs, or lack of knowledge depth usually). The other problem being in the ability to explain why you possess that much knowledge on an unconventional topic for your gender/status while saving social face (eg, a man with even a reasonable amount of knowledge of cosmetics being seen as either gay, prone to transvestism, metro, or similar, without many positive alternative explanations that could easily be conveyed).

[Vindekarr]

Well, I'm with you BlackBaron, in the sense that I just don't give a flying purple bother about what society thinks of me. I do, wear, act like, and think whatever the heck I want, because at the end of the day, it's MY descision, it doesn't effect them in any negative way, and it makes my life more entertaining. In my case that means wearing my hair dyed bright colours, a few piercings, letting myself be interested in unpopular things, to listen to unpopular music in public, and to general be a bunyan on society's stinkey foot. I may have spikey pink hair, a nose piercing, and know to ride a motorbike, but I also love puppies and kittens, occasionally spend time clothes shopping, and usually stop to tickle Lucy, my neighbour's Golden Retriever puppy on the way home from work. DOES this make me girly? does it make me less of a man? poppycock! I say that a manly man should be so manly that he can say NO! to the pointless gender stereotypes of the past and accept that those days are over.

 

The world has changed and so people need to realise that in this modern age, the old rules are dead, and people can be whoever and whatever they want. Whether that is a punk like me, a "girly man" a "manly girl" or a fat, drunk scotsman in a chipmunk costume, in this modern era, it's up to you. Society can mooch off, this is the 21st century, where men are women, women are men, and chipmunk outfits may contain fat drunk scotsmen. BE YOURSELF, NOT what society says you are.

 

http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r535/Yurimarkov/Fulgrim_AhhhhhAnewbigFABULOUSbigdaydoingbigFABULOUSbigthingsforthe_59018e_4114938_zpsd9d702f4.png

[Iv000]

Many great posts here, makes me wish people IRL would think like this a bit more.

I'll try and say what others didn't already.

 

Once upon a time, men had to be manly and women had to be feminine and didn't have many rights. Because back then, your success was based on how much the others accepted you and your ideas. Being unique, being yourself and standing out in the crowd was the worst thing you could do.

 

A few centuries later and people are still taught that men have to be manly and females have to be female. But why? Those are illusions now, stereotypes and lies from the old times. We are being pressured by society and media, still taught to believe those stereotypes. As an example, advertisement on TV, seems harmless but it's one of the things that keeps these stereotypes running. I'm sure everybody has seen Barbie ads for girls, dress up dolls, all pinky toys and such. Boys get swords, magic, cars, blue colours etc etc. So, even children from an early age are being taught to believe those lies, you were, I was, everybody was. Children don't know the rules, they just follow what they are being fed. And so they grow up, thinking that men have to be manly and girls have to be girly, because they learned those set of rules since an early age, and now it's burned in their brains. I like to call that brainwashing.

 

Well gratz, they are puppets now, puppets of society. They are not themselves, they are what others are. They are not unique, they are not one person, they are a mass of puppets. Sheep. They meh what the other sheep meh and follow the other sheep around and do sheep stuff, because hey, I'm a sheep and I should do what sheep do right?

 

Well, no. You're a person, unique, you have your own mind, you can make your own decision and should not be influenced by outside sources. There will always be bullying, bad words, name calling, stereotyping etc But either way you shouldn't let that influence who you really are. So in the end, be manly, girly, gay, straight, trans, walk on your hands if you want to. Be what you and only you want to be, be yourself and show society that it failed. We're in the new age, times are changing, rules are changing. Change with them, but do not be led by authority. Some rules are stupid and meant to be broken, to make place for better ones. You have one life, only one, live it like you want to live it, and not how others want you to live it.

 

Be yourself, and enjoy being unique. The only rules you have to follow are the ethical rules, morality and humanity. I am still trying to truly get there, I sometimes ask myself if I'm manly enough as a guy, if I should tell others that I like guys, if I'm doing this or that right, but I'm doing good for my age and I will get there eventually. I hope you will too.

[DeadMansFist849]

This topic is one that just bugs me a lot because I'm a guy who's not "normal" either. I like shoes, cute animals, being in the kitchen, decorating myself, decorating all the things, and things that society says I'm not supposed to like in general. I do feel sad sometimes because of name-calling and stuff like that, so I do get it, in a way.

 

Basically the only point I want to get across is this

-you don't have to like things that other people say you're supposed to

-you don't have to modify yourself AT ALL to please others

-what matters is being a decent person and being happy

Very true... But missing the reason why those things are the way they are. Most of it boils down to socialization, or rather those behaviors and values you possess which help establish yourself as part of one group or another as a means of being cohesive with other members of that group. Men generally don't learn sports rosters and how well individual athletes play because they're deeply interested in knowing everything they can about a given set of sports... They learn it so that they can have a fantasy football league with their friends, have common topics to discuss, and have a legitimate excuse to get out of the house and do guy things. The reason why "talking shop" or discussing sports works so well as a male bonding activity is because the masculine mind tends to be most comfortable focused on singular activities and happiest when establishing confidence among a group; and these discussion topics allow one to either regale listeners with stories of hardship and revisit events where success was gained, or surprise them with depth of knowledge. It's successful and encouraged because it is much more universal among men of all cultures and walks of life as an established group of knowledge bases that will allow you gain familiarity with other men that you have had no contact with previously. This ultimately equates to fewer people in the immediate area who are likely to steal from you, or injure you, and in some occasions makes those people more likely to help out with minor inconveniences or to vouch for you. It is, generally speaking, a survival mechanic.

 

The same sorts of conversation points exist among women, but are often more varied by culture or status; among these topics related to young children, fashion, or local gossip are more commonly useful. The difference being that many of these have a stronger emphasis on emotional adjustment (complimenting eachother directly or indirectly), rather than as a means of establishing competency. This difference however is not exclusive to biology, but rather how receptive individuals are to compliments among that group. It works most often among women because females are more often socialized to offer compliments and take compliments; while males are more likely to express similar sentiments in indirect ways or through brief statements.

 

This is the reason why many activities or interests have either a masculine or feminine connotation. Those with a masculine connotation are usually those things related to work (labor, mechanics, hunting) or rule based constructs (sports, games, science, geekdom). Those with feminine connotations are usually those related to domestic tasks, child rearing, or personal care (appearance, health, social standing)*. These things were established this way partially due to brain differences between the sexes, and partially just as a course of a sexual division in labor which led women to have more frequent contact with other women, and men with more frequent contact with other men. There are of course differences from one culture to another for some things, depending on traditional views, but this is a good portion of the reason as to why tailoring is regarded with a feminine connotation despite most tailors being men.

 

 

But really, most of this is just archaic crap dragged over from previous generations that only continues to exist due to its connections with language and its self-serving nature. There's nothing wrong with just being yourself, just as there's nothing wrong with building familiarity with those things you usually don't associate with and generally growing as a person.

 

 

 

*Yes, aware that on both sides it is essentially work related topics, or things which are rule based, which is why women can just as easily "talk shop" or men have a lengthy discussion of fashion trends, provided they are in groups which respond well to those topics. The difference is that usually they aren't in those groups, or don't have the tendency to advertise that knowledge when other topics are available (due to internal social beliefs, or lack of knowledge depth usually). The other problem being in the ability to explain why you possess that much knowledge on an unconventional topic for your gender/status while saving social face (eg, a man with even a reasonable amount of knowledge of cosmetics being seen as either gay, prone to transvestism, metro, or similar, without many positive alternative explanations that could easily be conveyed).

Yes, I know it's socialisation--I thought I'd got it across that stereotyped behaviour isn't innate. My point is just that expression doesn't invalidate identity. A person can be of any gender and partake of any gender-coded activity, whether or not that fits with their identity and/or sex assigned at birth. :) However, society is rather ridiculous about that and to be honest, everyone needs to do a bit more thinking and talking about these tough subjects in order to get rid of the ridiculousness.

 

I'm definitely careful about what I share about my life and experiences in what spaces. The reason is fear of being harassed or attacked for being non-normative--and not only that, but if someone took it upon themself to "teach the freak a lesson" (as has happened to me more than once), I would be blamed for it. (Again, that's happened.) There's nothing wrong with being effeminate, but everything wrong with other people's reactions to difference in general.