Debate over the Sandy Hook shooting

[Syco21]

It shows you think logical fallacies help strengthen your argument.

If you're going to reject my argument, you need to explain why. Otherwise you're just copping out.

 

@Syco21

 

I think you are missing the point about the V-Tech shooting. Someone with over two hours can easily kill a mass amount of people with just a hand gun.

A handgun has about the same rate of fire as a semi automatic rifle. Which is to say generally about as fast as you can pull the trigger.

 

Yes as more evidence is made public official reports do change.

These are big, WTF changes. But it doesn't really matter.

 

the Sandy Hook Shooting only lasted a matter of less than 3 mins. Only an assault rifle could cause this much death and destruction in such a short amount of time. In Reality the event could have actaully took less time than what has been originally officially been reported, strongly suggesting the weapon he was using was modified to shoot fully automatic after extensive evaluation of the crime scene. The shooter could have unmodified the weapon before he put it in the trunk of his car then soon after taking his own life.

So basically you're basing your claims on pure speculation, a conclusion you came to. You as a person that is completely ignorant as to what an assault rifle is or how guns work.

 

To convert a modern sporting rifle into an assault rifle, you would need knowledge of how guns work, a machine shop, knowledge of how to operate the machines and the ability to manufacture new parts. It's not a simple task of replacing a part like you would a Lego or a stick of RAM or flipping a switch. There's a lot that would have to go into it. It's not easy and I highly doubt anyone doped up on Prozac or any similar drug would be able to do so without damaging the firearm.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Syco21

[ColdHeartonIce]

You have proof Israel doesn't have a school shooting problems?

You want my guns, you want fore restrictions, you are in the burden of proof not me.

Yeah, they have shootings from time to time. But they have a much lower crime rate than countries with gun bans like broken britain for example.

 

In America guns get 80 times more used to stop crime then to do crime.

 

I respect you views of not wanting gun control and wanting your freedom. Please respect my views on wanting gun reform.

No you don't. How can you make such a phrase "i respect your property" when you wanna take it from me? I don't wanna reform gun control, i wanna get rid of it. There was a time in America when people, normal citizens, could buy Canons and Dynamite.

 

"I want gun reform" is a phrase for "i want more prohibitions which wouldn't work anyway and are just the first step to a total gun ban". Focusing my anger at you is "counter productive"? You make such demands, not my congressman. I don't need to involve my congressman in this, i don't need this circus around. You wanna take something from me? So face it and don't hide behind a ballot box. Just say it: You wanna let others enforce your rules on me. Don't hide behind phrases and this "buhu this poor Children" BS and just say it.

But People buy more and more guns every month and you gun grabbers got nothing to gain here. If you don't like it, you can leave anytime!!

 

Someone with over two hours can easily kill a mass amount of people with just a hand gun.

And unarmed mass because the campus direction forbidd everyone to carry guns after they discovered the first two killings.

[colourwheel]

the Sandy Hook Shooting only lasted a matter of less than 3 mins. Only an assault rifle could cause this much death and destruction in such a short amount of time. In Reality the event could have actaully took less time than what has been originally officially been reported, strongly suggesting the weapon he was using was modified to shoot fully automatic after extensive evaluation of the crime scene. The shooter could have unmodified the weapon before he put it in the trunk of his car then soon after taking his own life.

So basically you're basing your claims on pure speculation, a conclusion you came to. You as a person that is completely ignorant as to what an assault rifle is or how guns work.

 

To convert a modern sporting rifle into an assault rifle, you would need knowledge of how guns work, a machine shop, knowledge of how to operate the machines and the ability to manufacture new parts. It's not a simple task of replacing a part like you would a Lego or a stick of RAM or flipping a switch. There's a lot that would have to go into it. It's not easy and I highly doubt anyone doped up on Prozac or any similar drug would be able to do so without damaging the firearm.

 

This is why we have debates. speculation or not there is no conclusive proof he didn't modify his weapon to shoot automatic. Have you seen some of the pictures of the devistation of the crime scene after the shooting?

 

Also you are insulting me by saying I am ignorant as to what an assault rifle is or how guns work. I am a licensed gun owner too. Just because I want gun reform and do not own an assault rifle you are making quite some accusations about me.

 

As for an AR-15, this assault rifle can be modified to be fully automatic, not claiming it would be easy to do. A little different than compairing modifying a normal sporting rifle into an assault rifle.

 

You have proof Israel doesn't have school shooting problems?

Yeah, they have shootings from time to time.

 

This completely contradicts your original statement about Israel not having school shootings.

 

I respect your views of not wanting gun control and wanting your freedom. Please respect my views on wanting gun reform.

No you don't. How can you make such a phrase "i respect your property" when you wanna take it from me? I don't wanna reform gun control, i wanna get rid of it. There was a time in America when people, normal citizens, could buy Canons and Dynamite.

 

If you don't think I respect your views then be the better person and respect mine.

 

Your talking point in this debate have almost degraded to arguing with yourself.

 

If You don't want gun reform, then fine you don't want gun reform. now you can leave the debate knowing you have made your point you don't want gun reform.

Edited December 31, 2012 by colourwheel

[Ghogiel]

It shows you think logical fallacies help strengthen your argument.

If you're going to reject my argument, you need to explain why. Otherwise you're just copping out.

 

I did explain why your argument fails. It's a logical fallacy to say in the context of gun control that because cars kill more people than guns, therefore guns aren't a threat to the public at large.

 

Guns have killed way more people than A-bombs have, yet the US government just went around and killed 100k people in Iraq over imaginary WMDs... a lot of them were killed with guns. Therefore nukes are safe.

[Syco21]

This is why we have debates. speculation or not there is no conclusive proof he didn't modify his weapon to shoot automatic. Have you seen some of the pictures of the devistation of the crime scene after the shooting?

 

Also you are insulting me by saying I am ignorant as to what an assault rifle is or how guns work. I am a licensed gun owner too. Just because I want gun reform and do not own an assault rifle you are making quite some accusations about me.

 

As for an AR-15, this assault rifle can be modified to be fully automatic, not claiming it would be easy to do. A little different than compairing modifying a sporting rifle into an assault rifle.

There's also no conclusive proof that he wasn't a government agent working under orders from the president, either. There's no conclusive proof that he even used the rifle at all. Lot's of reports that say he didn't. There's no conclusive proof that he even exists or that the shooting took place, no conclusive proof that you or I exist. There's no conclusive proof that the world isn't flat or that aliens don't live among us. Hell, for all we know we could be living in the matrix and there was never any shooting at all, only the robots harvesting people for whatever reason and the program just filled in the blanks to explain the disappearances. Maybe Cheyenne Mountain really does house a Stargate program! What if the Elder Scrolls series is the true history of our civilization!? There's no conclusive proof to say none of that is true, so maybe it is!

 

See, I too can speculate without any basis in reality.

 

Also you are insulting me by saying I am ignorant as to what an assault rifle is or how guns work. I am a licensed gun owner too. Just because I want gun reform and do not own an assault rifle you are making quite some accusations about me.

I'm not insulting you and I'm sorry if you feel that way. But it's the honest to goodness truth. You might be a gun owner, you may even know your gun better than I know my own hand. But never the less, you're still wholly ignorant of what an AR-15 is and how it operates. The fact you keep calling it an assault rifle just proves that assertion. You clearly do not know what an assault rifle is or how it operates, you shouldn't be ashamed. A lot of people have no idea. There are cops that don't know squat about the laws they enforce. But they're cops for goodness sake! An extreme example is that I've had officers tell me that it is illegal to shoot someone on your property outside of your home and that if you do, you should drag them into the house before calling the police so as to make it look like a break in.

 

1. It's totally legal to shoot a trespasser that hasn't broken into your home, so long as they were a threat to you, your property or another third party or their property.

 

2. Following their advice will land you in prisom before you can blink your eye. When the investigators show up to look at the crime scene, they will see that you drug the body into the house to make it look like a break in. Then you can kiss your self defense goodbye because now it appears to be a premeditated murder.

 

So you see, being a gun owner automatically mean you know everything there is to know about every gun that exists.

 

As for an AR-15, this assault rifle can be modified to be fully automatic, not claiming it would be easy to do. A little different than compairing modifying a sporting rifle into an assault rifle.

This is just further proof. The AR-15 IS a sporting rifle and it's just as difficult for an AR-15 as it is a semi auto shotgun or handgun.

 

I did explain why your argument fails. It's a logical fallacy to say in the context of gun control that because cars kill more people than guns, therefore guns aren't a threat to the public at large.

 

Guns have killed way more people than A-bombs have, yet the US government just went around and killed 100k people in Iraq over imaginary WMDs... a lot of them were killed with guns. Therefore nukes are safe.

Nukes are a threat to you? When was the last time someone was killed with one?

 

Guns aren't a threat to the public at large because out of 330,000,000 people, 2,500,000 deaths only 8,000k people are killed with them. That's 0.002% of the population. If you want a larger percentage, it's still only 0.32% of all deaths.

 

Doctors and pharmaceuticals have a higher death toll than guns. Malpractice is responsible for nearly 200,000 deaths per year. That's 7.8% of all deaths. If doctors aren't a threat to the population, then guns sure as hell ain't.

 

My point is that the few murders that happen are insignificant when compared to the population as a whole and don't even come close to outweighing the benefits of DGUs, of which there are at least 100,000 each year.

[colourwheel]

This is why we have debates. speculation or not there is no conclusive proof he didn't modify his weapon to shoot automatic. Have you seen some of the pictures of the devistation of the crime scene after the shooting?

 

Also you are insulting me by saying I am ignorant as to what an assault rifle is or how guns work. I am a licensed gun owner too. Just because I want gun reform and do not own an assault rifle you are making quite some accusations about me.

 

As for an AR-15, this assault rifle can be modified to be fully automatic, not claiming it would be easy to do. A little different than compairing modifying a normal sporting rifle into an assault rifle.

There's also no conclusive proof that he wasn't a government agent working under orders from the president, either. There's no conclusive proof that he even used the rifle at all. Lot's of reports that say he didn't. There's no conclusive proof that he even exists or that the shooting took place, no conclusive proof that you or I exist. There's no conclusive proof that the world isn't flat or that aliens don't live among us. Hell, for all we know we could be living in the matrix and there was never any shooting at all, only the robots harvesting people for whatever reason and the program just filled in the blanks to explain the disappearances. Maybe Cheyenne Mountain really does house a Stargate program! What if the Elder Scrolls series is the true history of our civilization!? There's no conclusive proof to say none of that is true, so maybe it is!

 

See, I too can speculate without any basis in reality.

 

Now you are just being silly. The rifles was at the scene of the crime though. Despite many reporters that say he didn't use the rifle is actually inaccurate. The reports state the weapons could have not been used. A little different than saying he didn't use the weapon.

 

Also an AR-15 is just a M16 modifed to only to be used to be semi automatic an M16 is an assault rifle. The manufactures can claim what ever they want to label it as "sporting rifle" sounds friendly. Attacking me saying "I am ignorant of what an AR-15 is and how it operates" does not help your talking points or make your arguements stronger.

 

The main mechanism of operation for the AR-15 is known as direct gas impingement. Direct impingement is a type of gas operation for a firearm that directs gas from a fired cartridge directly to the bolt carrier or slide assembly to cycle the action. This type of mechanism of operation is exactly set up the same way as an M16.

 

Please feel free to call me ignorant more about not knowing how an AR-15 operates if it makes you feel better to strengthen your arguements.

Edited December 31, 2012 by colourwheel

[ColdHeartonIce]

Syco21

Guns aren't a threat to the public at large because out of 330,000,000 people, 2,500,000 deaths only 8,000k people are killed with them. That's 0.002% of the population. If you want a larger percentage, it's still only 0.32% of all deaths.

Yeah and how many of them were Gangmembers or Mafia Goons killed by other criminals. You see no one can make political gain with their deaths because the normal population is quite happy about criminals killing each other.

 

colourwheel

As for an AR-15, this assault rifle can be modified to be fully automatic, not claiming it would be easy to do. A little different than compairing modifying a sporting rifle into an assault rifle.

You couldn't even tell me the difference between 5.56 rounds and .223 rounds and now you bringing up another one of your experts opinion why we should ban, i mean "reform" the availability of assault weapons.

 

Just because I want gun reform and do not own an assault rifle you are making quite some accusations about me.

Hey listen you wanna get into other peoples business and now you being distraught when people react to that just as people reacte.

See that? That is what america is about, don't get into my business. Leave me alone.

http://images.vector-images.com/119/gadsden_fl_n10462.gif

Why should i respect an opinion which goal it is to dictate how i should live my life and what things i could own. This isn't debatting class in highschool, this isn't a game.

 

If you don't like it, go. There are many places in this world were no one except Police and Military is allowed to own gas operated rifles with magazins. No need for reforms over there. So before you wanna destroy what makes this country different from others just go. Here you go: http://www.immi.gov.au/living-in-australia/choose-australia/moving-to-australia/

And don't tell me something about poor little children, more children in the US get killed by Doctors and Drugs and Pills than by insane shooters.

 

Whatever, there is no reason with these people.

Edited December 31, 2012 by ColdHeartonIce

[colourwheel]

As for an AR-15, this assault rifle can be modified to be fully automatic, not claiming it would be easy to do. A little different than compairing modifying a sporting rifle into an assault rifle.

You couldn't even tell me the difference between 5.56 rounds and .223 rounds and now you bringing up another one of your experts opinion why we should ban, i mean "reform" the availability of assault weapons.

 

.223 is loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56 mm. :laugh:

 

Why should i respect an opinion which goal it is to dictate how i should live my life and what things i could own.

 

The forum rules dictate to respect others views and opinion in the debate section reguardess if you agree with them or not. If you don't wish to play by the rules then you should reframe from participating or probably be banned from said forum.

Edited December 31, 2012 by colourwheel

[ColdHeartonIce]

The forum rules dictate to respect others views and opinion in the debate section reguardess if you agree with them or not. If you don't wish to play by the rules then you should reframe from participating or probably be banned from said forum.

And you think that is an opportunity to wrap authoritarian anti-american demands in an endless debate which the pro-gun faction will always be bored with because the other side wouldn't never ever leave them alone. Hey maybee you should get banned from the US for your connivery against the constitution. Untill then i hope you will leave by yourself.

 

Nice assault weapon ban over here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/

Edited December 31, 2012 by ColdHeartonIce

[colourwheel]

The forum rules dictate to respect others views and opinion in the debate section reguardess if you agree with them or not. If you don't wish to play by the rules then you should reframe from participating or probably be banned from said forum.

And you think that is an opportunity to wrap authoritarian anti-american demands in an endless debate which the pro-gun faction will always be bored with because the other side wouldn't never ever leave them alone. Hey maybee you should get banned from the US for your connivery against the constitution. Untill then i hope you will leave by yourself.

 

 

Authoritarian anti-american demands?

 

What exactly have i done wrong that is connivery against the constitution?

 

Advocating for reform to gun laws in america is not illegal. The constitution actually protects anyone and everyone who is vocal on this issue or any issue to reform law. The idea of being banned from the USA for simply voicing an opinion would be unconstitutional in itself.

 

It would seem the only thing that matters to you is the 2nd amendment in the constitution totally disreguarding the 1st amendment.

Edited December 31, 2012 by colourwheel