Texture Pack (Combiner) normal map problem / question

[LargeStyle]

So I installed the basic Texture Pack Combiner package earlier on and I immediately noticed that the normal map(s) for roads is / are wrong - they're inverted so the stones are recessed into the mud (as obviously opposed to the mud surrounding beneath the stones in a much more natural way). This might sound like a pathetic concern, but it ruins immersion for me so I tried (and failed) to fix this....

 

I extracted an "incorrect" road normal map (road01_n.dds) from TPC files and put it into Crazy Bump application. I then set the bump intensity to negative figures (-50) to reverse the bump shape - but when I apply the texture to the game although the inversion problem seems fixed the surface has become far too reflective. I've been down this normal map + glossiness road before (no pun intended) but I never really found the solution to this. All I have been advised to do is reduce the brightness of the normal map until it's reflecting light correctly, but to me this doesn't seem right to have to do this manually each time I edit a texture as it's a major case of trial and error, so there must be an easier / better / more accurate way to do this?

 

Here's the (inverted) road as installed by TPC:

 

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9773/tesv20130107225835573.jpg

 

Here's the (semi-fixed) road as adjusted by myself:

 

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9585/tesv20130108001255210.jpg

 

Also, to make it easier to see the problem in game I made the following video. Note that I look to the sun just to demonstrate that the light and shadows directions within the normal map are initially wrong and then "fixed"....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoDXxGGp_fk

 

I'm guessing that there's a problem with one or more of the layers within the .dds file as a regular .dds viewer displayed the original TPC normal map as...

 

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5497/capturepdz.jpg

 

...and my normal map that was modified in Crazy Bump and later had layers merged in Gimp to just take the following image looks like...

 

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1690/largesnormalmap.jpg

 

...and the original TPC normal map then also having merged layers in Gimp for the images sake look like...

 

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5650/tpcroad.jpg

 

So does anyone know a "proper" and non-trial and error way to correct this (and other) normal map reflective problems please?

 

Any help is as always much appreciated - I wouldn't mind walking around Skyrim sometime without being distracted by one thing or the other :wallbash:

Edited January 8, 2013 by LargeStyle

[siberok92]

the alpha channel of the normal map has the reflective map in it so if youre inverting values maybe that is being inverted also.

 

So I installed the basic Texture Pack Combiner package earlier on and I immediately noticed that the normal map(s) for roads is / are wrong - they're inverted so the stones are recessed into the mud (as obviously opposed to the mud surrounding beneath the stones in a much more natural way). This might sound like a pathetic concern, but it ruins immersion for me so I tried (and failed) to fix this....

 

I extracted an "incorrect" road normal map (road01_n.dds) from TPC files and put it into Crazy Bump application. I then set the bump intensity to negative figures (-50) to reverse the bump shape - but when I apply the texture to the game although the inversion problem seems fixed the surface has become far too reflective. I've been down this normal map + glossiness road before (no pun intended) but I never really found the solution to this. All I have been advised to do is reduce the brightness of the normal map until it's reflecting light correctly, but to me this doesn't seem right to have to do this manually each time I edit a texture as it's a major case of trial and error, so there must be an easier / better / more accurate way to do this?

 

Here's the (inverted) road as installed by TPC:

 

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9773/tesv20130107225835573.jpg

 

Here's the (semi-fixed) road as adjusted by myself:

 

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9585/tesv20130108001255210.jpg

 

Also, to make it easier to see the problem in game I made the following video. Note that I look to the sun just to demonstrate that the light and shadows directions within the normal map are initially wrong and then "fixed"....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoDXxGGp_fk

 

I'm guessing that there's a problem with one or more of the layers within the .dds file as a regular .dds viewer displayed the original TPC normal map as...

 

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5497/capturepdz.jpg

 

...and my normal map that was modified in Crazy Bump and later had layers merged in Gimp to just take the following image looks like...

 

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1690/largesnormalmap.jpg

 

...and the original TPC normal map then also having merged layers in Gimp for the images sake look like...

 

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5650/tpcroad.jpg

 

So does anyone know a "proper" and non-trial and error way to correct this (and other) normal map reflective problems please?

 

Any help is as always much appreciated - I wouldn't mind walking around Skyrim sometime without being distracted by one thing or the other :wallbash:

[LargeStyle]

Thanks for your reply, but could you please remove the quotation of my entire post from you post please? You're the only person that's responded so it's not really neccessary and my post obviously isn't a small one. Just trying to keep this thread tidy - thanks!

 

Right, yes it was a problem with the alpha channel, as in it didn't have the proper alpha channel at all. It seems Crazy Bump doesn't automatically put the original alpha channel into the new .DDS file. Through a fair bit of reading on the net today and loads of trial and error I've fixed the inverted normal map for the road. Just in case this helps others out I'll explain what I did....

 

First of all load the inverted normal map texture into Crazy Bump:

 

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2285/tpcbefore.jpg

 

I then inverted the normal map by adjusting its bump intensity to -99:

 

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8308/tpcafter.jpg

 

Once this normal map is saved and loaded into Photoshop I could then see that the Alpha channel was pure white...

 

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8016/photoshopstage1.jpg

 

...while noticing that the "inverted" normal map taken from TPC had the correct Alpha channel...

 

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6031/photoshopstage2.jpg

 

So I went back to my normal map from Crazy Bump, right clicked the pure white Alpha channel and deleted it...

 

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/3624/photoshopstage3.jpg

 

Going back to the TPC normal map I right clicked the Alpha channel and selected "Duplicate Channel"...

 

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5215/photoshopstage4.jpg

 

...which then brought up a window that allowed me to duplicate the Alpha channel directly into the Crazy Bump normal map...

 

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6885/photoshopstage5.jpg

 

So I end up with the new normal map and the original Alpha channel in one .DDS file...

 

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5581/photoshopstage6.jpg

 

Now in game things look like they should:

 

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5739/tesv20130108145552727.jpg

 

...and here's the video to show the improvements (including a night scene which really shows the shadowing off)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M69awiCzrn4

 

I know experienced texture modders will think I'm stating the obvious, but I've never dealt with image creation on this level at all. Besides, I'm unsure whether I'm doing this right anyway as when Crazy Bump outputs the normal map it also (can) provide Displacement, Occlusion, and Specular maps - whatever they are.

 

What I'd really like to know though is how to generate the black and white image within the original Alpha channel - I'd like to experiment with this more, but all of my reading up so far hasn't told me how to do this or use the extra files Crazy Bump provided.

 

EDIT: If I understand this correctly, the black and white Alpha channel image is a height and / or reflective map which as my Crazy Bump .DDS had a pure white Alpha channel then it assumedly caused the entire texture to be too shiny. I still don't know as yet how to insert / use the 3 extra maps that Crazy Bump provided directly into an Alpha channel. It must be possible as the original textures have the black + white Alpha texture, so I would like to know whatever it is I'm missing :wallbash:

Edited January 8, 2013 by LargeStyle

[Bugsbugme]

I've attempted to fix this myself. It seems you did a better job then me though. All I did was flip the texture and its normal map around 180 degrees with photoshop which seemed to fix them in game. It was more of a work around though.

 

I also had the shiny problem till I realised I had saved the normal map without the alpha channel.

 

It seems though that both of us haven't discovered the true problem with it. The texture looks fine when you open it in photoshop, but then becomes inverted when seen in game. This doesn't happen with other textures which leads me to believe there is something else wrong with it.

[LargeStyle]

Blimey, surprised this thread got dug out (:

 

I don't know what's going on with it, and quite frankly I'm not bothered....I have it "fixed" now, I'm very happy with it, and I'll probably release my version of the road (which has also been colour corrected too) with my lighting / weather mod (as an optional download). I don't recall if this thread showed my final version of the road, so here it is today....

 

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6/2013040900001.jpg

[Bugsbugme]

That looks great!

 

I'm not sure you should upload them though. The original author of these textures was band. After he was band he kept making new accounts to troll everyone. As much of an ass as he is, they are his textures and the Nexus rules don't allow us to upload other peoples work regardless of how help full we are trying to be. He could still be around and could alert the Admins. I was going to upload my version but I was warned not to.

Just a friendly warning.

 

I still give mine out through PM's though which apparently is ok.

[myztikrice]

Isn't this fixed with parallax mapping?

[Bugsbugme]

I don't know much about Parallax but a normal map kind of mimics the same effect doesn't it? The issue here though is that the normal map for this texture is being inverted (meaning the sun is casting the shadow in the wrong direction) in the game whilst appearing fine in editing software eg. photoshop.

 

Also, I tried the parallax files for this texture that the TPC uses and those also have the same issue, the shading on them is being cast in the wrong direction which is understandable because all those files are are these textures with parallax mapping so anything wrong with these textures just gets carried over.

[LargeStyle]

As my guide shows, when you load the original texture into Crazy Bump it's inverted by default, so I can only assume it was mistakenly made this way - hence why the manual inversion of the normal map resolves the issue.

 

@ Bugsbugme: Sent you a PM.

[Bugsbugme]

But beside that you have it in photoshop and it looks fine. That's what was confusing me when I was editing them. I did notice though the red channel looked a lot different to the other RGB channels, perhaps that was the problem all along.. perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about lol.