You’re just a an unimportant piece of some game *Contains major spoile

[suger88]

Now before I start babbling about what I'm really here to present you, I want to assure everyone that I think the game is highly original and innovative. I enjoyed playing through it just as much as anyone. Anyway, recently, I've caught myself being fairly annoyed and fed up on a series of notions regarding the game. I have a feeling there are several players out there who both think and feel the same way, so perhaps this matter has already been discussed to the tedious. Some might disagree and tell me wrong, and please do if you feel I'm not correct. I'd be glad to have someone to discuss this issue with. However, I think it's necessary to bring this up.

 

Let's start up with a few (somewhat rhetorical) questions.

1. Will there ever be a new high king of Skyrim?
2. Can you join/destroy the Thalmor?
3. Will Whiterun, Winterhold etc. ever be built up after the civil war?

 

I could have went on and named probably ten more very much alike questions, but it wouldn't really make any difference, so let's go with these for now. Anyway, the reason why I consider these questions somewhat rhetorical, is because we all know the answer to all of them is no. Thus the title of the thread, you're just some unimportant piece of a world and an environment that doesn't pay much attention to you, or what you do.

 

So let's go on and have a look at the plot and the result of your actions as the so-called Dragonborn. Well, of course we know that you're really there just to fulfil your destiny as the Dragonborn – "the one and only who can defeat the mighty World Eater, Alduin". You're the hero to be and the world is counting on you. And so you're sent out to fetch some ancient lore items, fight various bad guys, and as you go you meet a bunch of (more or less friendly) people swearing oaths to help you. Kind of clever so far, but this is pretty much where things start to get annoying. Firstly, no matter how you choose to cope with the main quest, the result is always going to be the same. Sure, you can choose to neglect it all, but that won't make the main quest fade away. No, it'll still be there for you to fulfil once you're ready. There's no alternate ending or different ways to complete the quest. Alduin will die if you go through with it all - hence, it's fair to say it's all highly staged and predetermined.

 

Then, once you've slayed this so-called World Eater, though, nothing seems to happen, and more importantly, no one even seems to give a single f*ck. I mean, honestly, you get a little pat on your shoulder and that's that? Well, thank you for slaying that dragon, now if you don't mind, we'll simply go on with our lives like nothing ever happened. Really, I daresay I was expecting some sort of a feast, and at least an undeniable and incontrovertible status as an all-time hero of Skyrim. The Blades should be absolutely thrilled and hail you, the Jarls ought to give you a more decent reward, and also I think the Greybeards should have more to say on the matter. "We're all in your depth, Dragonborn," doesn't really give me anything as long as I can't take any advantage of it. In my opinion, they don't even seem to realize it's all over. Everything just goes on as usual. I was, quite frankly, expecting more. For instance more respectful comments from the NPCs. They should at least know who you are and what you've done.

 

Furthermore, this applies to the other big quests, as well. Whether you side with the Stormcloaks or the Imperials doesn't really matter, the quest line is going to involve the same battles, and the same types of quests. You do some fighting, fetch some stuff, and then kill Tallius or Ulfric. Then what? Nothing. Literally nothing. The only change worth speaking of is that city guards will be changed out by guards representing whichever side won the civil war. No new high king is crowned, and I can't get rid of the feeling I didn't even actually achieve anything. Loads of things should have happened, and the effects of the war should have been more visible. If you sided with the Stormcloaks, the Thalmor should have been banished from the land, and their embassy closed down. You see what I'm getting to, don't you? It's simply not enough. If you wanted, it should even have been possible to claim the high king crown yourself. After all, you saved the damned land.

 

Then there's the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood, the Collage of Winterhold, and the Companions. Sure, you can go through the quests and become something of a leader of all these different groups, but once you've done that, there really isn't any reason to communicate with them ever again whatsoever. It feels so utterly static and unnecessary. The different groups don't even seem to know of each other, and they certainly don't have anything to do with the main quest. In my opinion, they should. Whether you're the leader of the Dark Brotherhood should have an impact, and not just in relation to how you choose to introduce yourself in Sovngarde (you'll be allowed to enter regardless of what you say). Sure, the guards notify that something has happened, but that's about it. If the Thieves Guild - like the guards say - is back to power, then it should be more visible. And people are ought to know you're the leader of the different groups; it's just silly that Maven Black-Briar threatens to send the Guild and the Dark Brotherhood after me when I'm in charge of both.

 

The truth is, nothing you do in Skyrim ever affects this little virtual world. No one gives a s*** about what you've achieved and conquered, so you might as well just don't. You're just some dude (or girl) walking the streets, and people will remain assh*les toward you. The fact that you saved everything they own doesn't matter. Several NPCs will even still talk as if Alduin is still out there, or as if the war is still ongoing. I would call that a bug, to be honest. It makes the game feel very unrealistic, and once again, like if everything you've done doesn't matter in the end.

 

So anyway, listen up, I just needed to put some thoughts to paper and get some frustration out there. I know a lot of you guys probably think I'm just a spoiled brat expecting way too much. After all, it's just a game and it would have been way too comprehensive to make loads of multiple endings, and so on. I guess it's true what they say, one will always demand more, regardless of what one already has. And sure, there were a lot of satisfying moments. For quite some time, I actually felt like if I was a hero, and that I had saved Skyrim. But when I started resonating on the matter, I realized how nothing really had changed. I was still treated the same way, people went back to their miserable little lives – it never felt as if I was thanked for any of it. So yeah... if you feel like calling me unsatisfied assh*le, please go ahead. I'll understand. And if you agree with me, please share your thoughts as well. I'd love to hear whatever you guys think about these issues.

 

Anyway, thank you very much for your time. Peace.

 

Oh, I also just want to clarify that English isn't my first language, so if there were some parts of this thread where the grammar was bad, I sincerely apologize for that.

Topic has been moved from the Skyrim General Discussion section as it contains spoilers.

[Deleted472477User]

 

ISo anyway, listen up, I just needed to put some thoughts to paper and get some frustration out there. I know a lot of you guys probably think I’m just a spoiled brat expecting way too much. After all, it’s just a game and it would have been way too comprehensive to make loads of multiple endings, and so on. I guess it’s true what they say, one will always demand more, regardless of what one already has. And sure, there were a lot of satisfying moments. For quite some time, I actually felt like if I was a hero, and that I had saved Skyrim. But when I started resonating on the matter, I realized how nothing really had changed. I was still treated the same way, people went back to their miserable little lives – it never felt as if I was thanked for any of it. So yeah... if you feel like calling me unsatisfied assh*le, please go ahead. I’ll understand. And if you agree with me, please share your thoughts as well. I’d love to hear whatever you guys think about these issues.

 

Anyway, thank you very much for your time. Peace.

 

Oh, I also just want to clarify that English isn’t my first language, so if there were some parts of this thread where the grammar was bad, I sincerely apologize for that.

 

Unfortunately, since Morrowind Bethesda seems to have dropped choices and consequences story-telling in favor of handholding. Would it really take that much time and effort to have people in the world react to what you do in it? Multiple endings might be too much, but at least SOME more reaction would be very nice.

 

I love that Skyrim offers a big world and you can do what you want. But I'd also like to see a "Well, you screwed around too long dovakhiin, world is getting om nom nommed by Alduin now, too bad, try again." The original Fallout had a wide open world, AND a timed quest, and it's great.

Edited January 10, 2013 by nyxalinth

[suger88]

Yeah, exactly! I really enjoyed the Fallout-way of telling a story, too. I'd love to see something like that in an Elder Scrolls game.

 

All this being said, there are some "kind of useful mods" out there. For instance, there’s a mod that will make the guards sound more respectful toward you. But thought that’s all great, it shouldn’t be necessary for the fan community to create such mods. That’s Bethesda’s job. Fans always want more, not less. As simple as that. Now, if anyone knows a mod that’ll make other NPCs know it’s all over, or at least sound more respectful toward the Dragonborn, please share. It would be much appreciated:-)

[Falconian]

I agree on some points (some are just exaggerations/personal opinions tho).

 

My main issues are:

 

1) The story is revealed up-front.

This is probably the biggest flaw as there is little to no twist - Beth seriously need to re-learn storytelling from scratch.

 

2) Getting involved into things is too easy and unrealistic.

Brynolf asking a random person to join a secret Thieves Guild.

Kodlak letting you in companions by just looking at you and saying you have a good heart (even if you are a Vampire and killed a whole town of innocents).

Joining Stormcloaks/Imperials should require much more effort and some work to get to the upper ranks and be considered for important missions.

DB is ok, at least you have to kill a person and then you're forced to kill one of the 3 guys to prove your worth - makes sense, not easy - this was very good instead.

Bandits attack you on sight instead of surrounding you and asking you for a toll.

 

3) Game is still going too easy on the player.

Crime should be like 20x more punished, 1000 gold for homicide?

Rebelling and taking over a town shouldn't doable alone - you would need at least 5 companions and everyone high level and uber-geared - and then you would name a Jarl to rule for you.

Traps are a little nuisance while they should be instant death (remember the bandit dying in the dungeon near Riverwood?).

Blocking/dodging needs to be fundamental.

No debuffs for not eating/drinking/sleeping.

 

4) AI still needs major improvements.

AI needs to heal, dodge, take cover, call for help - at the very least.

 

But admittedly everything else is a masterpiece.

[suger88]

Just found this video. Though it's not entirely the same, I'd say the dude sums it all up quite brilliantly:

[screendrop]

The reason they've made the story and gameplay all about "hand-holding" is to make it more accessible to the greater public. In my opinion, TES has gone from an intellectual and spiritual journey that fundamentally asks the player to script the script to a pre scripted albeit freedomized type of linear gameplay. In the same way that FC3 added a turret gun-and-run mission, Skyrim narrowed down the choice available to the player. Consequently narrowing the amount of inntellectual descision required by the PC and resultantly opened up the franchise to a much larger audience. This same audience is the group that do not need a reason to do something or act a certain way but do so because it fits into the "Player Character" model of the surrounding environment.

[Niborino9409]

I have to agree. No matter what you do, nothing happens. I would want more possibilites, more variation, not just: "Go there, kill that and bring me that item".

 

As written before, killing people and still being able to join the Companions? Don´t think so. I would also have liked to not having to choose a side in the war, it almost does not matter what side you choose. Things are still the same, the only thing that happens is that either Rikke(she is named the same as my previous dog :biggrin: )and Tullius dies or Galmar and Ulfric. And a change of Jarls in like 2 cities. YAY!

 

But the thing that is most annoying is this: I play as a dunmer and I chose the Imperials because I would like to help the Dunmers of Windhelm and all the other races throughout Skyrim. After finishing the Main Quest the result was: Nothing, absolutely nothing happened! They barely know that Ulfric is dead!! >=(

 

They still live in that bloody Gray Quarters, but at least the new Jarl said that he would fix it, he hasn´t or at least not yet. That´s not all. The racism that I´ve heard so much about doesn´t exist either! The Dunmer woman in Windhelm that gets harrased, I helped her and thought "A Dunmer pal, yay!" But she reacted like I if I were a Nord =(

 

"Have you come to make fun of me as well?" Hell No! I even kicked one of the Nords nordic lower part, but still nothing, ok, not exactly nothing, he calls me "friend". And in the next second he hates dark elves again, I mean come on! What is this? She did not react on me helping her either!

 

And being able to discuss the war with Ulfric? Even though I am the Dragonborn, he should still hate me because of my race.

 

 

 

I swear to Mara, if Bethesda puts in some Quick Time events in their next Elder Scrolls I will probably abandon them or go back to Morrowind. -_-

 

 

But hopefully, it cannot go worse from here, if they want more Hand-Holding they have to make an interactive DVD.

 

 

Maybe I am a little too negative, I really love the game, but the things I´ve written above really annoys me.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Niborino9409

[sajuukkhar9000]

No one says anything about you beating Alduin because no one knew Alduin even came back in the first place. everyone who saw Alduin just saw what was, to them, just another Dragon, and the dovahkiin offered absolutly no evidence that Alduin had retured beyond "I said he did".

 

There is, quite literally, absolutely zero possible justification for anyone besides the blades, and the greybeards, to say ANYTHING abut Alduin coming back, or being defeated, BECUASE NO ONE ELSE SAW HIM.

-It makes no sense that people would thank you

-It makes zero sense that the Jarls would give you gold

-It makes zero sense for anyone to change AT ALL because of Alduins defeat.

 

I really must wonder how someone can supposedly play the game, but somehow totally miss all the interactions between the characters to somehow come up with the notion that anyone thanking you is justifiable.

 

It screams of not paying a single bit of attention to anything that happened in the game world.

 

Unfortunately, since Morrowind Bethesda seems to have dropped choices and consequences story-telling in favor of handholding. Would it really take that much time and effort to have people in the world react to what you do in it? Multiple endings might be too much, but at least SOME more reaction would be very nice.

That is pure hyperbole.

 

The only thing your actions did in Morrowind was cause people to go "hello house member, if you were talking to another member of that house, or hello fellow X guild member, if you were talking to someone in that guild" BOTH of which are in Skyrim as well.

Edited January 11, 2013 by sajuukkhar9000

[Niborino9409]

Lol, didn´t even think about that! Now I got one more thing to complain about :laugh:

[sajuukkhar9000]

Lol, didn´t even think about that! Now I got one more thing to complain about :laugh:

Yes, complain about realistic, and believable, character reaction instead of them making it some ego-stroking game where every NPC falls to their feet and worships you like a god for every single journal recovery mission.

 

god forbid Bethesda actually make the world realistic, but I guess that's the way it is with gamers nowadays, they need to be praised for every single misc task they do or else their pride gets damaged.