Labels

[kvnchrist]

Because we are intelligent creatures and SHOULD be able to look beyond simple definitions. We are, after all, having a conversation about it....if we can recognize that we do it we should be able to think beyond it without necessarily having to stop the act itself.

 

The issue isn't the categorizing (as this helps humans understand the world around them) but the perception of the "other" being a bad thing.

Who said the human race was intelligent. We mimic intelligence until confronted with ideaology counter to ours. I've seen the most intelligent people I've come across act like children when confronted with a challenge to their perceptions of reality. Heck, It has happened here on several occasions.

 

We, who wish to descuss these matters are doing so, but what is the percentage of human beings who would just as soon flip you off and call you names, because you don't see what they consider obvious. Look at the Untouchables in India. Look at any (BANNED SUBJECT) organization and you can see people condemning others for the labels they attribute to them and the depravity that label fosters.

 

The compartmentalizing of information is helpful, but to some it is necessary to put others in their Quote/unquote rightful place.

[Lisnpuppy]

If you do not think humans intelligent enough to do as I mention then how do you think they would be intelligent enough to drop all these things all together?

[kvnchrist]

What I said was:

 

 

We mimic intelligence until confronted with ideology counter to ours. I've seen the most intelligent people I've come across act like children when confronted with a challenge to their perceptions of reality. Heck, It has happened here on several occasions.

Human beings are steeped in tradition, culture and they thrive in familiar surroundings. What needs to happen is to experience other cultures, traditions and become comfortable with that which they are not familiar. Only then will we be truly able to transcend the us against them mentality.

 

Intelligence is only the capacity to learn. Education is only an awareness of a larger world. Experience is the one thing that will permanently, for good or ill instill a sense of human face on those who we once called, them!

[Vagrant0]

The problem is not the differences or how we identify with them.

 

The problem is when we make no effort to cooperate with, or understand those who are different from us.

[kvnchrist]

Ask yourself why children can play with children, who if they were adults they wouldn't be 50' from each other, unless they have eachother's necks in the grip of their hands. Children see more clearly than we as adults, because they haven't been tainted by the unconscionable world on adulthood.

[JimboUK]

 

jim_uk, on 18 Feb 2013 - 06:23, said:

It's intolerance and fear that causes the violence, labels don't exclude people, people exclude people, the label is just a description.

And how do those people being intolerant cast those in their cross hairs? They do that by Labeling them as something other than the caster is. Just because people exclude other people doesn't mean they don't use labels to do so. Wither it is exclusion or inclusion, the effect is the same. Someone is left out for being a cast that way by the use of a label.

 

Violence need not produce a visual scar. Those scars almost always go away. It is the scars left on the soul that last the longest and hurt the most.

 

Labels help to define people, there is not a problem with labels, the problem comes from people who fear or dislike a certain group, those who use labels for their own ends. It's human nature to pigeon hole people or groups of people, to think we would ever stop doing it is to deny reality. I have Jewish friends, are they being violent towards me? no, do I see them as any different? not at all. People should be proud of what and who they are, diversity adds to the richness of any culture, a few bigots and morons shouldn't be allowed to change that.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

jim_uk, on 18 Feb 2013 - 06:23, said:

It's intolerance and fear that causes the violence, labels don't exclude people, people exclude people, the label is just a description.

And how do those people being intolerant cast those in their cross hairs? They do that by Labeling them as something other than the caster is. Just because people exclude other people doesn't mean they don't use labels to do so. Wither it is exclusion or inclusion, the effect is the same. Someone is left out for being a cast that way by the use of a label.

 

Violence need not produce a visual scar. Those scars almost always go away. It is the scars left on the soul that last the longest and hurt the most.

Labels help to define people, there is not a problem with labels, the problem comes from people who fear or dislike a certain group, those who use labels for their own ends. It's human nature to pigeon hole people or groups of people, to think we would ever stop doing it is to deny reality. I have Jewish friends, are they being violent towards me? no, do I see them as any different? not at all. People should be proud of what and who they are, diversity adds to the richness of any culture, a few bigots and morons shouldn't be allowed to change that.

This has nothing to do with diversity and absolutely nothing what-so-ever about liking who they, you or anybody else for that matter are. This is about people casting others as outsiders. Bigots are simply those individuals who actively embrace the differences in order to justify their own existence. They are the worst of the worst and are so ignorant they are proud to be so.

 

We still come back to the notion that it is intolerance that is the issue here when the real issue is defining whole groups by their differences instead of embracing them for thir similarities.

 

Hell, with the overwhelming loss of the Republican ticket, this last presidential election, I would think the danger of pigeon holing people would be pretty much a given. The GOP excluded more groups than they included and it cost them another 4 years.

 

This is not about personal growth or finding oneself. It is about branding a set of people as "Not Us," by defining us by a label..

[Lisnpuppy]

What I am trying to say is that it is impossible not to label..its part of what makes the human brain work. It will ALWAYS be and "us" and "them" as people (even very small children) categorize things into groups including themselves. The separating into groups is human biology. Its how our minds work. The problem is not the categories or the labels but our unwillingness to see that its sometimes ok for there to be an "us" and "them" and still find both "us" and "them" of equal value and that not all things will fit neatly into labels. And that is ok also.

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

 

jim_uk, on 18 Feb 2013 - 06:23, said:

It's intolerance and fear that causes the violence, labels don't exclude people, people exclude people, the label is just a description.

And how do those people being intolerant cast those in their cross hairs? They do that by Labeling them as something other than the caster is. Just because people exclude other people doesn't mean they don't use labels to do so. Wither it is exclusion or inclusion, the effect is the same. Someone is left out for being a cast that way by the use of a label.

 

Violence need not produce a visual scar. Those scars almost always go away. It is the scars left on the soul that last the longest and hurt the most.

Labels help to define people, there is not a problem with labels, the problem comes from people who fear or dislike a certain group, those who use labels for their own ends. It's human nature to pigeon hole people or groups of people, to think we would ever stop doing it is to deny reality. I have Jewish friends, are they being violent towards me? no, do I see them as any different? not at all. People should be proud of what and who they are, diversity adds to the richness of any culture, a few bigots and morons shouldn't be allowed to change that.

This has nothing to do with diversity and absolutely nothing what-so-ever about liking who they, you or anybody else for that matter are. This is about people casting others as outsiders. Bigots are simply those individuals who actively embrace the differences in order to justify their own existence. They are the worst of the worst and are so ignorant they are proud to be so.

 

We still come back to the notion that it is intolerance that is the issue here when the real issue is defining whole groups by their differences instead of embracing them for thir similarities.

 

Hell, with the overwhelming loss of the Republican ticket, this last presidential election, I would think the danger of pigeon holing people would be pretty much a given. The GOP excluded more groups than they included and it cost them another 4 years.

 

This is not about personal growth or finding oneself. It is about branding a set of people as "Not Us," by defining us by a label..

 

Are you seriously suggesting we could function without defining people? how do we help the poor without defining them? how do I know what foods to avoid giving guests if I don't define them? how do I make allowances for someones beliefs if I haven't defined them. Suggesting we can function without labelling or defining is failing to understand how the human mind works. The fact is we're not all the same so trying to behave as if we were is a nonsense.

 

As for children, they can be very cruel towards those different to themselves.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

 

jim_uk, on 18 Feb 2013 - 06:23, said:

It's intolerance and fear that causes the violence, labels don't exclude people, people exclude people, the label is just a description.

And how do those people being intolerant cast those in their cross hairs? They do that by Labeling them as something other than the caster is. Just because people exclude other people doesn't mean they don't use labels to do so. Wither it is exclusion or inclusion, the effect is the same. Someone is left out for being a cast that way by the use of a label.

 

Violence need not produce a visual scar. Those scars almost always go away. It is the scars left on the soul that last the longest and hurt the most.

Labels help to define people, there is not a problem with labels, the problem comes from people who fear or dislike a certain group, those who use labels for their own ends. It's human nature to pigeon hole people or groups of people, to think we would ever stop doing it is to deny reality. I have Jewish friends, are they being violent towards me? no, do I see them as any different? not at all. People should be proud of what and who they are, diversity adds to the richness of any culture, a few bigots and morons shouldn't be allowed to change that.

This has nothing to do with diversity and absolutely nothing what-so-ever about liking who they, you or anybody else for that matter are. This is about people casting others as outsiders. Bigots are simply those individuals who actively embrace the differences in order to justify their own existence. They are the worst of the worst and are so ignorant they are proud to be so.

 

We still come back to the notion that it is intolerance that is the issue here when the real issue is defining whole groups by their differences instead of embracing them for thir similarities.

 

Hell, with the overwhelming loss of the Republican ticket, this last presidential election, I would think the danger of pigeon holing people would be pretty much a given. The GOP excluded more groups than they included and it cost them another 4 years.

 

This is not about personal growth or finding oneself. It is about branding a set of people as "Not Us," by defining us by a label..

 

Are you seriously suggesting we could function without defining people? how do we help the poor without defining them? how do I know what foods to avoid giving guests if I don't define them? how do I make allowances for someones beliefs if I haven't defined them. Suggesting we can function without labelling or defining is failing to understand how the human mind works. The fact is we're not all the same so trying to behave as if we were is a nonsense.

 

As for children, they can be very cruel towards those different to themselves.

Define them as individuals, not groups. A man who happens to be born black or white is not black or white and then a man, but political correctness has turned one into an African America and then a man and the other simply a man. I would rather know if either of them are good caring persons rather than something that was determined by nature.

 

 

Being poor or rich is an artificial term which has nothing to do with the individual person, but their financial circumstances. None of these people arte the same and the reasons they are where they find themselves is as diverse as their attitudes. Some life has not been fair, some decide they are comfortable in that situation and some chose to be so because in there goodness they've rejected prosperity. Mother Theresa falls into the later description. My question to you is, Do you actually think people who are givers, who make a conscious decision to reject wealth in favor of helping their fellow humans are actually poor. To me they are richer than the wealthiest person in the world.

 

As for those who have chosen to be poor. I have family who have decided they'd rather do drugs and live on a shoe string, rather than stop doing drugs and find better employment, with a business that mandates drug testing. This isn't even in the same ball park with a single mother, with 5 children who works 3 jobs and cleans other peoples houses on the weekends. One is actually trying to make it, while the other is simply sliding by and teaching her kids those same values. I ask you, who deserves public assistance more? The label poor gives all these people equality behind a label that they don't necessarily deserve.

 

As far as my suggestion being nonsense, I think is just another attempt to say that to try to change what has always been isn't worth the effort. I'm not saying that anyone is, but that seems to be an entrenched mindset. Personally I think it would be work if people who stop for a second and not concentrate on the reasons it wouldn't. There is hope there. Alot more than what people have grown accustomed to do. Look around the world. How has this penchant to label worked out over the course of human history. How many lives have been lost?