Skyrim with mods keep crashing - tried many things

[mateusz2000x]

So I just bought skyrim SE and wanted to play it seriously - with many mods, correctly installed. I started with skyrim SE ultimate guide. I really tried to install all of these mods correctly. With patches, and being aware of incompatibility. Now, after 300 mods, game keep crashing. Almost every time it crashing when I'm trying to enter open skyrim. As I start the game and choose an interior as starting location, it loks fine. But after trying enter open world, it crashing. Once game let me enter open world, but then in crashed anyway after minute.

 

What I already did:

- LOOT. Sort plugins. Fixed every error shown in LOOT, every warning, every suggestion about patches. I cleaned everythink.

- SSE edit, SSEEditQuickAutoClean - I created patch and cleaned mods listed by LOOT.

- WRYE BASH. I made bashed patch.

I also kicked out some mods listed by Mod Organizer warnings.

 

when starting tes I also have an error about engine fixes, it saying that im clode to limit (refr handle)

 

And it's crashing. Maybe i did something wrong installing mods. But what now, install everyhing again and check every mod?

 

I will be grateful for any thoughts or advices. Maybe one day I will be able play modded skyrim.

 

Load order:

https://textuploader.com/1pqc9

Edited October 3, 2020 by mateusz2000x

[nt5raham]

Wow, going instantly from 0-300 mods is quite a jump! One benefit of building a little at a time is that you learn to troubleshoot along the way while it is still simple (just a few mods).

 

The first thing that comes to mind when I read your OP is simply this: Are you overtaxing your computer? Lots of mods requires a powerful PC, lots of memory, and a strong graphics card. Specifically regarding indoors versus outdoors, if your ENB settings are set really high (i.e. ultra setting) then you will be using a LOT more resources outdoors. Only an upper-end gaming PC could handle this. Perhaps this could be a factor?

 

In general, a good way to troubleshoot would be to systematically disable mods until the game stops crashing. That will often show you where the problem is.

 

Any modding guide should be telling you to install a little at a time. Install some mods, start game and test. Install some more mods, start game and test. Now you need to go backwards from that.

 

This is from the Skyrim SE Ultimate Modding Guide web page: https://www.sinitargaming.com/skyrim_se.html

 

• Important tip #2: To install 200 mods and then launch your game is not a best idea. I personally recommend to do in this way: install a few mods (let's say 5-7 if these mods are big, 20-25 if small), sort them with LOOT, launch your game, check it's stable. Install 5 more and so on.

[mateusz2000x]

 

Wow, going instantly from 0-300 mods is quite a jump! One benefit of building a little at a time is that you learn to troubleshoot along the way while it is still simple (just a few mods).

 

The first thing that comes to mind when I read your OP is simply this: Are you overtaxing your computer? Lots of mods requires a powerful PC, lots of memory, and a strong graphics card. Specifically regarding indoors versus outdoors, if your ENB settings are set really high (i.e. ultra setting) then you will be using a LOT more resources outdoors. Only an upper-end gaming PC could handle this. Perhaps this could be a factor?

 

In general, a good way to troubleshoot would be to systematically disable mods until the game stops crashing. That will often show you where the problem is.

 

Any modding guide should be telling you to install a little at a time. Install some mods, start game and test. Install some more mods, start game and test. Now you need to go backwards from that.

 

This is from the Skyrim SE Ultimate Modding Guide web page: https://www.sinitargaming.com/skyrim_se.html

 

• Important tip #2: To install 200 mods and then launch your game is not a best idea. I personally recommend to do in this way: install a few mods (let's say 5-7 if these mods are big, 20-25 if small), sort them with LOOT, launch your game, check it's stable. Install 5 more and so on.

 

 

In the beginning, I actually added a few mods and tested them. Later I made a little mistake as I only tested inside the city without going outside. Then I sped up the addition of more mods even more, where I suddenly realized that the crash was almost immediately after going out.

 

if the game runs successfully, it's around 60fps, from which I concluded so far that the computer is fine.

 

So I guess I have to just turn off mods one by one and look for the problematic ones

 

[nt5raham]

Sounds like you're on the right track! And yes, it is tedious work. But it is very rewarding when you finally get to enjoy that beautifully modded and stable game. Good luck!

[HadToRegister]

300 mods, and I'm not seeing any ESLs

Are ANY of those ESPs, converted to ESPfe?

If not, and they're all just regular EPS and ESM, then your problem is that you're way over the 255 ESP limit.

[mateusz2000x]

300 mods, and I'm not seeing any ESLs

 

Are ANY of those ESPs, converted to ESPfe?

 

If not, and they're all just regular EPS and ESM, then your problem is that you're way over the 255 ESP limit.

Could you explain it in words for someone who doesn't understand the subject?

 

Btw I discovered that "immersive creatures" causes instant crash. Im looking for more compatibility patches to fix it.

 

@Edit.

After adding some patches for Immersive Creatures... It just works! Or it seems like, because i played like 15 min and peacefully exit the game, which is a good result for me.

Wish me luck, because im still planning to add some more mods, but im really close to end my list of wishes.

 

I still wonder about one of my questions. Should I be worry about close to limit refr handle error after starting game? The number shown is approximately 900,000. Heard the limit is a million

Edited October 4, 2020 by mateusz2000x

[nt5raham]

Regarding the reference handles limit, I would go to the Engine Fixes mod page and ask there. The posts are closely monitored and usually get a quick response. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/17230?tab=posts

 

Regarding HTR's comments:

 

Skyrim SE has a hard limit of 255 "Active" plugins. Active plugins have a Mod Index in the form of a 2-character hex value, starting with 00. Most plugins are either .esm or .esp files. The initial game is going to include Skyrim.esm which is Mod Index 00, Dawnguard.esm, HearthFires.esm and Dragonborn.esm. You should also see Update.esm in there. This is your base game, and already you have used 5 of the 255 plugin "slots" that the game can handle, with 250 remaining slots.

 

Then you start installing other "required" mods like the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch (USSEP), then some optional mods, and pretty soon you are filling empty slots left and right. You've installed about 300 mods - are you wondering how your game is working with that many installed?

 

There is another category of plugins, called "light" plugins, that do not technically take up one of the 255 Active plugin slots. They are all going to have a Mod Index beginning with FE followed by a 3-character hex value. The game supports up to a total of 4,096 "light" plugins. These are called light partially because they don't take up an Active slot, but also because only the smaller mods/plugins can be used like this because of a size limitation placed on them. Common candidates for mods that can utilize a light plugin are simple follower mods, utilities, and things that make small changes to the game in general. You won't find any major quest mods packed into a light plugin.

 

Some light plugins have the .esl extension, and these are somewhat limiting because they are programed to sort toward the beginning of your load order. You won't find any .esl plugins loading late in your game.

 

There is also another type of light plugin that uses the same .esp extension mentioned above that is normally used for Active plugins. But in this case the .esp plugin is relatively small, and it has been configured with a "flag" that allows it to be treated like it has the .esl extension, but without the load order limitation placed on .esl plugins. This type of plugin is often called ESP-FE because it is a .esp plugin with a light Mod Index beginning with FE. They are also sometimes called esp-esl, and even the term "ESLify" has been coined to describe the process of making a regular .esp file into ESP-FE. That is what HTR was asking, "Are ANY of those ESPs, converted to ESPfe?"

 

How do you know how many Active plugins you have installed/enabled? If you followed the Ultimate Guide then you are probably using MO2. I've never used that manager, so I can't help with that. I know in Vortex there is a counter on the Plugins page that shows the number of Active/Light plugins so you can keep track. I'm sure MO2 has something similar.

 

Some .esp plugins are already ESP-FE when you download them because the mod author has kindly done it for you. Other .esp plugins are good candidates to be made ESP-FE, but you must initiate the process. Again, with Vortex there is a feature built in that flags any .esp that is a good candidate for ESP-FE, and you know it can be safely converted. Once you see that flag in Vortex, converting the .esp from regular to ESP-FE is just a few mouse clicks away. You can find a guide to manually make this change here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/21618

 

If you keep installing mods, and you have converted all of the possible .esp plugins to ESP-FE, but you are still running out of Active slots (more than 255 Active plugins), then "merging" Active plugins is the next step. There is usually no reason to Merge a light plugin since they don't count against the 255 limit, unless it needs to be included in a merge with an Active plugin because of dependencies. There is no real-world way that you could reach the maximum number of plugins you can merge (theoretically over 50,000 plugins), but like light plugins, not all plugins are good candidates for merging. This is covered in the Ultimate Guide under the section for MODS TO BE INSTALLED OR ACTIONS TO BE MADE IN THE END OF MODDING PROCESS.

 

I currently have 985 mods installed with over 1,000 plugins, but by using the processes described above I only have 204 Active plugins. The rest are either Light (559) or have been Merged (around 300). I did want to push the envelope (contrary to the advice of Mator who created the zMerge tool I use), and I merged 249 simple follower mods into one merged .esp...that is 249 plugins now taking up a single plugin slot, and it works perfectly. If I wanted to put forth the effort, those 204 Active plugins could easily be whittled down to less than 150, leaving room for literally thousands of merged plugins (do the math). There are limitations to this process, but in the real world it is unlikely you would reach those limits. The largest real-world example I have seen is a player who's been into Bethesda games for a decade and installed over 1,800 mods in Skyrim SE. And that is with a stable game and no weird CTD issues.

 

BTW, if anybody tells you Vortex is not a good mod manager for serious modding, I will definitely disagree. 985 mods is pretty serious. Vortex is powerful and flexible and has served me well for reaching my current load order. Those that complain are usually those who are unfamiliar with Vortex's features and how to use them...like picking up a Swiss Army knife and only using the main blade. But, like Ford vs. Chevy, to each his/her own.

 

No matter what, you have to follow the advice of the experienced modders. Take your time, and test, test, test. You said it yourself that you started out testing as the Ultimate Guide suggested, but it is easy to get complacent, lazy and sloppy. Then it bit you in the backside. The more you install, the more you need to test. I check every single mod I install for ITMs, dirty edits, and conflicts with other mods using xEdit. Then I put it in game and test it. Go to the area(s) that the mod affects, check out the house, meet the follower and make sure they aren't turning funny colors, etc. Then I start playing. One. Mod. At. A. Time.

 

Even then, some mods have problems that show up later. I have a mod installed that kept causing CTD when entering certain cells. Eventually I worked out that I had just made a level, and this mod had a bug that caused CTD in cells that it "touched" at that certain level and beyond. Fortunately, the mod author was right on top of things and fixed it immediately, so I have kept the mod. There have been other bugs I have found in mods that are no longer supported, and sometimes I can fix the bug myself. If the mod I'm testing has a problem and I decide to uninstall it, I go back to a save before the mod was installed so there is no residual garbage left over in my current game to corrupt my saves. I never uninstall a mod mid-way in a play-through. If I uninstall a mod that's been installed for a while, I start a new game. That'll make you stop and think before installing just any old mod willy-nilly!

 

BTW, I haven't been modding for years like some people around here (like HTR). In May of this year I was where you are now, just starting to do some serious modding, following a published guide.

[HadToRegister]

 

300 mods, and I'm not seeing any ESLs

 

Are ANY of those ESPs, converted to ESPfe?

 

If not, and they're all just regular EPS and ESM, then your problem is that you're way over the 255 ESP limit.

Could you explain it in words for someone who doesn't understand the subject?

 

Btw I discovered that "immersive creatures" causes instant crash. Im looking for more compatibility patches to fix it.

 

@Edit.

After adding some patches for Immersive Creatures... It just works! Or it seems like, because i played like 15 min and peacefully exit the game, which is a good result for me.

Wish me luck, because im still planning to add some more mods, but im really close to end my list of wishes.

 

I still wonder about one of my questions. Should I be worry about close to limit refr handle error after starting game? The number shown is approximately 900,000. Heard the limit is a million

 

 

Load Order - Max number of ESPs/ESMs = 254

 

ESP - takes up one slot in your load order

ESM - take up one slot in your load order

 

ESL - LIGHT ESP - doesn't take up a slot in your load order, but you can't sort it in your load order

ESPfe - Converted ESP LIGHT that doesn't take up a slot in your load order, but can be sorted

 

There's a limit of 254 ESPs.

You have 300+ mods, that seem to all be either ESP or ESM, which is way over the limit of 254 ESPs/ESMs

 

You are playing with fire, no matter if your load order works right now, because eventually your game will break down and deteriorate

 

[mateusz2000x]

My ESPs+ESMs is 242 right now. It means I can play untill 254?

Thanks for responding, there are a lot of informations, I have to read it slowly

Edited October 4, 2020 by mateusz2000x

[nt5raham]

My ESPs+ESMs is 242 right now. It means I can play untill 254?

Basically, yes. Some of your ESPs may already be light, and if so they are not counting toward that 255 plugin limit. What mod manager are you using?