SSE Is There Such A Thing As A "Map of Cells"?

[nt5raham]

I'm doing conflict resolution in xEdit, and finding out the hard way that some mod authors (for whatever reason) change cells that are totally unrelated to their mod, i.e. Navigation Mesh, Landscape, or whatever. Possibly they are starting with a previously created mod and using it as a template to create the new one, and just forget to clean up. I don't know, and that's not really the point. I am thankful to have the mod and I don't mind doing a bit of tweaking.

 

Sometimes the areas they modify are labelled in xEdit so their locations are obvious: There is a house mod near Solitude, and I can see from the EditorID it is changing navmesh info in ShroudHearthBarrowExterior by Ivarstead, so it is easy to see that those changes are spurious. But now I'm realizing that I can't just blindly accept the changes done by the mod author, and I can't trust that the mod isn't doing crazy things on the other side of the world.

 

So here's the problem that prompted the Topic Title. There are times when the cell being changed does not have a recognizable label under EditorID in xEdit. It is blank. Is there a way I can use CK or some other tool to find out where a particular cell is? Here is an example of the info I have available, and I'm sure it means something to someone who knows how to use it:

• [CELL:0000979E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at 20,-16)

I'm hoping that somewhere there is a "map" of some sort that I can plug values into and it will show me where the cell is located. I'm open to any help, and I love guides and videos if someone knows of any good ones on this topic.

 

Thanks for the help!

[IsharaMeradin]

Perhaps the following will help for any locations in the Tamriel worldspace (i.e. your example)

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/2251/?

You cannot "plug in values" but you can look at the cell grid and locate the cell being referenced.

[nt5raham]

@IsharaMeradin that is perfect for my needs! Thanks!

 

Edit: This is quickly becoming my favorite tool, so simple yet sheds light into an otherwise dark world!

[nt5raham]

Update: Using this tool, I am amazed at the number of mods I have installed that modify cells which have nothing to do with the mod itself. In one instance the mod author told me that the mod had originally been written for one location, then moved it to another that was quite a distance away. The author "thought" the original area had been cleaned up, but in fact had many lingering edits across multiple cells, including a cell in a busy area with the entire Navigation Mesh deleted.

 

This map has been really eye-opening from that perspective. Hopefully this can be a word of caution to mod authors, please be careful what you do to the world of Skyrim. And thank you for sharing your hard work so freely!

[Rasikko]

The thing about navmeshing is you have to dig for information on it, and the older Skyrim gets, the more and more new modders coming in aren't aware of the problems that come with navmeshing. All you have to do is connect a new triangle native to the mod to a vanilla triangle and the entire thing gets zapped silently by the CK on the next load.

 

I also think they don't know how to clean using xEdit or even know about xEdit.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Rasikko

[nt5raham]

The thing about navmeshing is you have to dig for information on it, and the older Skyrim gets, the more and more new modders coming in aren't aware of the problems that come with navmeshing. All you have to do is connect a new triangle native to the mod to a vanilla triangle and the entire thing gets zapped silently by the CK on the next load.

 

By "zapped" I am guessing you mean messed up or destroyed?

[Rasikko]

No,I mean deleted. Navmeshing is not very...liked by the CK. You gotta do certain stuff to prevent it from deleting the entire navmesh. You can't even create vanilla islands, that will delete it. You wont know it happens either because the CK will give no warning. The only sign is if the Form ID of the vanilla navmesh changes to match the mod index (00 -> 0x). You can't just mess with a cell's navmesh, change your mind and move else where thinking everything is alright. No everything ain't alright lol.

[nt5raham]

Yeah, I'm sure this was totally unintentional, and the mod author was totally unaware, just as you described. Even when we were initially messaging about it I told the author that CK does some crazy things. I didn't realize how right I was LOL.

[nt5raham]

Can you recommend a resource or tutorial that covers this specific topic?

[Rasikko]

I had book marks to a "Navmesh Compendium", a thread that someone made back on the old bethesda forums which contained links to a lot of navmesh related threads. Unfortunately they went with the shutdown of the board.

There's this: https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/3337-skyrim-fixing-navmesh-deletion-using-tes5edit/

 

I can also share what I know 100% from my own tinkering with Navmeshes.

 

• You can move vanilla vertices, triangles, and edges around.
• You can create new triangles via edge splitting, but most be done on a vanilla triangle.
• You can create new triangles from existing vanilla vertices.
  • You need to select two vanilla vertices and while holding control, place down another vert and hit the A key to from the new triangle.
• You can delete most vanilla triangles.. too many will result in an error. Best to try not deleting any.
• You can move the entire navmesh from the cell way up in the sky or down below and disable it, and make your own navmesh from scratch.

Adding to this, merging 2 or more vanilla islands = deleted.

Custom triangles connected to vanilla triangles = deleted.
Deleting too many vanilla vertices = deleted navesh, but this one gives an error, and undo doesn't fix it.

 

I'm not sure what causes duplicated navmeshes. My tests were to see how to avoid them being deleted.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Rasikko