Are the Thieves Guild more evil than the Dark Brotherhood?

[Kayyyleb]

Lets just make this clear so I don't sound like a homicidal maniac. I'm not saying what the Dark Brotherhood do is good, killing people at all is the worst thing anyone can do. But I think what I should have said is that the Thieves Guild have worse morals in my opinion.

I actually understood what you meant. :3

[SpartanHoplites]

I see them both as equally bad, although, losing your life is worse than your money.

[Anska]

Don't worry, I think we all understood.

Still, I get the feeling that you didn't do any TG quests so far, apart from the initial two or three. True, they don't have a somewhat religious justification for their thieving or a tablet with five tenets, but they are rather clear about having rules as well: Don't kill; don't steal from our own people; don't betray the Guild. Most of them seem to consider the wellbeing of the Guild itself to be at least as important as their own personal gain too. They certainly don't do this for moralic reasons, but because they figure that if the Guild is doing well, so are they. Still, it means they do value their community quite a bit. They might mock each other endlessly and rather unkindly too, but when the chips are down, they are ... well, thick as thieves.

The DB otoh was created as a sort of religious order around the Nightmother with a ritualized procedure and rules written in stone. Disobeying said rules will call the wrath of Sitis upon you. If you look past the fancy setup however, they are just an assassins organisation with a very clever way of secretly accepting contracts. The tenets aren't that much different from the rules of the TG, with one exception: The DB clears your conscienes by forbidding you to turn down an order given by a superior. In other words: You can't turn down a contract without offending your patron deity. Now when I listen to the DB memebers, they don't even seem to pay that much importance to the Nightmother or Sitis (Cicero excluded). Rather they seem to be in the DB because it offers them a very convenient surrounding to do, what they enjoy doing most: killing somebody, more often than not slowly and messy. They enjoy inflicting pain on others, make fun of their victims and generally seem to think themselves above the everybody else.

So they have better morals because they can point at some doctrines which they don't break, one of which conveniently frees them from making their own decisions?

I do see where you come from, but I disagree that someone has the better morals just because he follows (doesn't break) some set of rules, no matter what the rules are.


I don't want to say, that the TG is a particularly nice bunch. They are, after all, the closest thing Skyrim has to a Mafia. They aren't a bunch of selfish egomaniacs though, but a business group.

[mirja]

From what I read about "evil" (I was into that s#*! when i was young), I mean evil like satan worship evil.

The people that worship the devil nowdays are actually just a bunch of selfish egoistic narcissists.

They belive that personal gain is the number one priority at any cost.

 

So yeah, I can in a way belive that the TG are actually more "evil" than DB.

DB they kill, which of caurse is an evil act, but they dont do it for personal gain, they do it for the mother and Sithis.

 

Hail the listener, Hail Sithis.

[billyro]

The Dark Brotherhood feels like an organised, friendly team of killers. The Thieves Guild is a bunch of rabble falling apart and betrayal is a common aspect of their life.

 

DB is way better.

[Kayyyleb]

From what I read about "evil" (I was into that s*** when i was young), I mean evil like satan worship evil.

The people that worship the devil nowdays are actually just a bunch of selfish egoistic narcissists.

They belive that personal gain is the number one priority at any cost.

 

So yeah, I can in a way belive that the TG are actually more "evil" than DB.

DB they kill, which of caurse is an evil act, but they dont do it for personal gain, they do it for the mother and Sithis.

 

Hail the listener, Hail Sithis.

I have all kinds of problems with what you just said...

 

For starters, you sound like you got your definition of Satanism from someone who either had no idea what they were talking about or were intentionally lying. You're pretty much all flat out wrong in your description and I have no idea who told you that or why you believed them. Satanism in reality is vastly different from what (I'm presuming) is your Christian presumption of what it entails. Selfishness, egoism and narcissism have nothing to do with any form of Satanism I've ever heard of. The majority are very similar to a (rather odd combination admittedly) religious version of secular humanists. Nothing "evil" about them at all. Hell, Catholicism is 100x closer to a match to what you describe. Do a little homework next time.

 

And as a follow up I'd like to have you explain why killing someone for personal gain is worse than killing them for some religious reason or simply for following authority. To me, all are equally poor excuses for killing.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Kayyyleb

[MirrorKnight]

 

The only good thing about being a DB is killing the Emperor. I wouldn't go all the way if the questline did not include that. TG have a hot deity to worship at the end. TG > DB.

 

Edited March 22, 2013 by MirrorKnight

[fraquar]

To be fair, the Thieves Guild can't really be evaluated until you deal with the corrupt leader - and he will be dealt with. Once he's out of the picture, it will all come back together the way it's supposed to. Right now it's total chaos.

 

As for morals, well one would have to wonder why a "professional" assassins group would be targeting people like Narfi. There apparently isn't anything they wont do if they are gonna go out of their way to whack that poor schmuck.

[mirja]

 

From what I read about "evil" (I was into that s*** when i was young), I mean evil like satan worship evil.

The people that worship the devil nowdays are actually just a bunch of selfish egoistic narcissists.

They belive that personal gain is the number one priority at any cost.

 

So yeah, I can in a way belive that the TG are actually more "evil" than DB.

DB they kill, which of caurse is an evil act, but they dont do it for personal gain, they do it for the mother and Sithis.

 

Hail the listener, Hail Sithis.

I have all kinds of problems with what you just said...

 

For starters, you sound like you got your definition of Satanism from someone who either had no idea what they were talking about or were intentionally lying. You're pretty much all flat out wrong in your description and I have no idea who told you that or why you believed them. Satanism in reality is vastly different from what (I'm presuming) is your Christian presumption of what it entails. Selfishness, egoism and narcissism have nothing to do with any form of Satanism I've ever heard of. The majority are very similar to a (rather odd combination admittedly) religious version of secular humanists. Nothing "evil" about them at all. Hell, Catholicism is 100x closer to a match to what you describe. Do a little homework next time.

 

And as a follow up I'd like to have you explain why killing someone for personal gain is worse than killing them for some religious reason or simply for following authority. To me, all are equally poor excuses for killing.

 

Read Aleister Crowley "black bible" and then come back to me with what "modern satanism" are about ok.

I'm not talking Black Metal style satanism here, I'm talking what actual modern satanists are about.

 

And for your information I'm an atheist, born as a protestant.

 

Eitherway, in Skyrim which is a game (and this is a skyrim forum right?) and skyrim have no connection to real life.

I agree that stealing something aren't as evil as killing in real life, but Skyrim aren't real life and if you think Skyrim are real life you need to see a brain doctor. lol

 

 

 

 

[gsmanners]

Short answer: yes.

 

Long answer: The Thieves Guild doesn't just turn you into a stealing machine and point you at loot. You have to decide for yourself which targets to go after, roughly half the time. This makes you implicit in the crime. Whereas, with the DB, you are always told precisely what to do, and whether you are taught the Five Tenets or not, you still obey them or suffer the wrath of Sithis.