Has vanilla Oblivion never really "bothered" anyone else?

[Jathom95]

I have not, though I was aware of that one. I really need to try one of these Vampire tweaks mods in general. Though I really wish there was one fairly close to vanilla, and most seem to change the whole system. Ashes to Ashes sounds nice for changing things up slightly in combat though with vampires.

 

Do you happen to play with Music enabled Striker? There is this particular mod, Silent Tracks Expanded, that I installed in the last year or so and I can't begin to describe what a difference it's made in my game. I'm sure you're aware of how normally the game soundtrack plays constantly with no reprieve whatsoever. What this basically does it add several folders of "silent" tracks of varying lengths. Instead of going from one track into the next, it adds a nice delay between each one occasionally before starting another. What this really allows you to do is appreciate the ambient noise more. Birds and wind and such in particular when you're outdoors, even some interior noise as well.

 

Of course, it hinges on someone playing with it enabled in the first place haha! I know a few people who play without. I like having music playing personally, just not all the time without pause.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Jathom95

[Striker879]

I have not, though I was aware of that one. I really need to try one of these Vampire tweaks mods in general. Though I really wish there was one fairly close to vanilla, and most seem to change the whole system. Ashes to Ashes sounds nice for changing things up slightly in combat though with vampires.

 

Do you happen to play with Music enabled Striker? There is this particular mod, Silent Tracks Expanded, that I installed in the last year or so and I can't begin to describe what a difference it's made in my game. I'm sure you're aware of how normally the game soundtrack plays constantly with no reprieve whatsoever. What this basically does it add several folders of "silent" tracks of varying lengths. Instead of going from one track into the next, it adds a nice delay between each one occasionally before starting another. What this really allows you to do is appreciate the ambient noise more. Birds and wind and such in particular when you're outdoors, even some interior noise as well.

 

Of course, it hinges on someone playing with it enabled in the first place haha! I know a few people who play without. I like having music playing personally, just not all the time without pause.

 

Yes I use Silent Tracks Expanded ... but you could call mine Expanded Squared. I have copied more copies of each length from Expanded and included them, as I have a lot of music tracks added to each category so the extra silent tracks help keep things well broken up. I use another of shadeMe's mods ( Trifle ) to not only control track changes between cell types but also to tweak the distance an enemy needs to be before combat music starts. No more knowing an enemy has turned aggressive until they are almost within striking distance behind my guy.

 

The reason I asked about Ashes to Ashes is it's a mod that I had to stop using due to a side effect it was having for me (NPCs dropping dead near city gates for no apparent reason). It's not widely reported (i.e. nothing in Ashes to Ashes mod comments) but it was clearly associated with Ashes to Ashes as it stopped occurring after I uninstalled Ashes to Ashes (this was on a previous character, not my current load order). Just fishing for info, as I would like to give it another go. I'll probably do an extended test using my current guy's load order before I commit Ashes to Ashes in my next guy's load order. The dropping dead is a fairly rare occurrence, so that's why the "extended" gets added to the test.

[Jathom95]

Yes, I've been in that situation many, many times. And nothing is worse than not knowing which plugin is causing a specific issue. Generally, that's why I'm very conservative about adding new things. I'll generally add one or two small things at a time, then open up the game and see how they play out for a while.

 

It's why I've always been reluctant to install things like large quest mods that are potentially plagued with issues. Well, it's a two-fold issue for me really. The unvoiced dialogue is something I'm not crazy about. It works in a game like Morrowind where the game is built around it, but in Oblivion to suddenly have very chatty NPCs just staring at you while "talking", it just ruins it for me. But even then, many of the custom quests tend to vary in quality so it's hard to tell at a glance anyway how it's going to feel in game.

 

Take Kvatch Rebuilt for instance. The staple of many a load order. I could just never get into it. I've tried it exactly once, and that was before the most recent betas. I admire the work that has been put into it over the years, but frankly I feel it tried to do too much in an effort to make it more appealing to install. What should ostensibly be about restoring a destroyed city turns out to be a long, drawn out affair through multiple quests, finding a random heir to the Count, a huge labyrinth underneath the city that is very difficult to navigate, etc. Do I get annoyed that Kvatch is a smoldering ruin in vanilla that stays that way through the entirety of the game? Sure, but that is less of a problem for me than all of the "extra" that comes with installing KR. I think @Oooiii mentioned much of the same grievances in his modding guide that I looked over recently.

 

Ideally, I wish there was a different take on a rebuilding Kvatch mod. Something like this:

 

1. Works in the background instead of having you actively working to rebuild it. Puts it more in-line with vanilla quests, like the end of Goblin Trouble when Cropsford is built over time.

 

2. Something that does something creative with the ruins instead of "restoring everything exactly as it was." One thing I notice in particular with KR is that it includes the destroyed arena as part of the architecture that's rebuilt. I sincerely doubt that people who have just lived through such a large tragedy and loss of life would be desiring to rebuild a bastion of death. I think something like a cemetery built over the ruins makes perfect sense, especially accounting for how many supposedly died during the siege.

 

3. Since we know so little about Count Goldwine's history and lineage, I think it makes more sense to have someone like Savlian Matius as either stepping up as Count or acting as sort of an interim with the Oblivion Crisis going on until the Elder Council can pick a replacement. I mean, he even steps down as a guard at the end of "Breaking the Siege of Kvatch", so it makes perfect sense.

 

Would it be smaller in scope? Sure, but I don't see that as a bad thing. If I knew the first thing about scripting, I'd set off on doing in myself. But alas, I'm just an idea guy. I do wish there was someone willing to do an alternative spin in the vein of what I've presented though. I've had that on my mind for quite a while.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Jathom95

[Striker879]

I'm not a quest type either ... of the quests that come with Arthmoor's villages I have done exactly zero, same with some others that crept into this load order but haven't even been started (examples of my "what was I thinking" moments). Heck I didn't even start the main quest until my guy was level 40 (thanks to my MOE Alt Start, before that you wouldn't have any idea what was to come).

 

A lot of things suffer from "feature creep" (Better Cities springs to mind as an example). If the authors pay attention to requests in the mod comments they will be unable to avoid it. No is not a word that comes easily to people who are seeking to please their audience. The only ones who don't suffer from this are the authors who have made the mod for themselves, and care little of what others think about it. They will have the repuation of being aloof and unresponsive to "suggestions" with their detractors.

 

My installation/testing regimen doesn't leave a lot of doubt for how any particular mod affects game performance/stability, but it is time consuming setting up a load order. My current load order was over two weeks in installing and testing, working 12 hour days at a minimum. Granted probably two days or more was spent getting RF and BPA tweaked to my liking, and even outside of those two many of my "testing sessions" would have appeared more like gameplay sessions to an outside observer but there was always a specific aspect being examined and assessed (for example Arthmoor's Faregyl has a noticeable impact on frame rate as it loads, but isn't implicated in increased CTD or lock up ... findings from my testing born out by years of gameplay).

 

Have you noticed the recently uploaded OBVA Synth - xVASynth? Vorians (of Better Cities fame) has used it to add voices to a Russian version of New City SI Passwall, and it looks like anyone with sufficient determination could voice any mod currently using non-voiced dialogue (within the limitation of races currently supported). It's a big download, and so far I haven't succeeded in getting it to run (perhaps Win 7 related ... I haven't spent much time tinkering to be honest) but it does offer an avenue around the non-voiced problem.

[Jathom95]

Yes, I saw it just last week as a matter of fact. As I understand it, the author of the tool is working continually to make it a viable alternative to using silent voices. It would make something like my above musings probable, as I'd imagine the "restoration" aspect wouldn't be the the most difficult part for experienced modders. But that would still leave quite a bit of work with creating interesting new dialogue for every NPC.

 

Still an exciting prospect though I believe. It really has the ability to change up things for mods in general rather than being limited to the game's stock dialogue.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Jathom95

[Striker879]

Yes, I saw it just last week as a matter of fact. As I understand it, the author of the tool is working continually to make it a viable alternative to using silent voices. It would make something like my above musings probable, as I'd imagine the "restoration" aspect wouldn't be the the most difficult part for experienced modders. But that would still leave quite a bit of work with creating interesting new dialogue for every NPC.

 

Still an exciting prospect though I believe. It really has the ability to change up things for mods in general rather than being limited to the game's stock dialogue.

 

For existing non-voiced mods the retrofit would be just a matter of using the text of the non-voiced lines (which are needed for the subtitles anyway) and then running them through OBVA Synth. It sounds to me like longer dialogue needs to be split up into smaller chunks to get acceptable results and there are tangible benefits to spending time using the tools to tweak the results, so time consuming would be a fair description. It would be illuminating to find out how much time Vorians needed to spend on the project mentioned in the OBVA Synth mod comments.

[CHASE6]

Not at all. I spent about 1500 hours on PS3 and loved every second. Even did another play through a few years ago on it. I've also played about 1500 hours on PC. Although the game has much more potential with mods on PC, a vanilla console experience is still great.

[CHASE6]

Don't get me wrong, the faces in particular are what I sympathize with most people on. When a quarter of your playthrough is spent looking at them, of course you want them to resemble something vaguely human lol. I have used and still do play with OCO, RMB+HGEC. They're very nice alternatives to vanilla. My point is more or less that graphical quality, for me at least, is secondary to the actual gameplay.

 

It's why I have such a difficult time trying to go back to something like Skyrim nowadays. I played Oblivion extensively for years, without mods on top of that. Never once did I find myself bored or unable to play the game for being too "ugly". I loved playing through Skyrim the first couple of times after it had released. Now? I can throw every mod I can think of at it and I still am instantly bored out of my mind. The depth in gameplay just isn't there for me. Take the cities for instance. Bethesda might've had a difficult time with FaceGen lol, but they really nailed making each city feel distinct and lived in with Oblivion. Everytime you visit one even in vanilla, you get the feeling that people actually live there and carry out their own distinct lives. And with NPC schedules that are present in Oblivion, they often do. Compared to Skyrim, where NPCs mostly stay in their respective cities and feel more akin to walking set pieces, repeating the exact same scripted conversations over and over.

 

It's just got that "something" that keeps me coming back.

 

I was thinking about this same point regarding Skyrim, recently. I enjoyed the 500 hours I put in on PS3. I have also put in about 1000 hours on PC, at least half of those I was bored. I have 0 desire to play it now, as I find it to be an extremely hollow and shallow experience. The RPG systems from III and IV got completely gutted. V looks great, but that's it. Sad.

[THETRUEDOZAH]

I've thought the same. I've wondered exactly how Skywind is even going to be possible, because I can't imagine Morrowind without stats... I'd rather see Skyrim ported into Oblivion as I feel Oblivion's is a richer, more varied territory that supports a vaster worldspace better.

 

Plus, the controls. OMG, the controls. I love Oblivion's controls, they feel so fluid, whenever there's a mistake it's my own fault, pressing the wrong button or whatever. Backflipping around, casting spells and meleeing, switching back and forth on the fly. I bought a Steam Controller off ebay just to play Oblivion pretty much, and it's awesome. Better than gamepad on 360 was, by miles. It felt like Skyrim's dual-wielding control scheme was a very forced mechanic that added a lot of unnecessary rigidity and detracted from actual gameplay.

Edited April 2, 2021 by THETRUEDOZAH

[PseronWyrd]

I began with Morrowind and was so bitterly disappointed when Oblivion came out I had to uninstall it after two weeks. What I perceived as Oblivion's shortcomings filled me with rage. I kept trying to find something to like about the game. Year after year I would re-install the game, play for a few days with clenched teeth and mounting blood pressure and would finally give up and uninstall the game again.

 

I made my peace with Oblivion in 2013. I learned to accept the game for what it was and not expect it to be something that it wasn't. But even so, it is the only Elder Scrolls game I can't play vanilla. I have to use mods in order to enjoy the game. I use mainly gameplay-changing mods like Masker's Oblivion Overhaul, Av Latta Magicka to overhaul the magic system, Realistic Leveling to overhaul character leveling, Realistic Fatigue to overhaul the fatigue system, and a few others. The only graphics mod I use is Oblivion Character Overhaul. I actually think the game looks pretty good in its vanilla state.

 

My favorite game in the series is Skyrim. I love the game, often play it vanilla, and have put more hours into it than any of Bethesda's other games, apart from Morrowind. I am also very fond of Elder Scrolls Online.