Time for ideas on TES VI

[nonoodles]

It would be great to have the mechanical equivalent of pistol whipping - using a weapon in more than one way - specifically, the ability to wield a mage staff as a one-handed weapon which was kind of largely absent from Skyrim, maybe only when it's out of charges.

[heyiforgot]

It would be great to have the mechanical equivalent of pistol whipping - using a weapon in more than one way - specifically, the ability to wield a mage staff as a one-handed weapon which was kind of largely absent from Skyrim, maybe only when it's out of charges.

Yeah some sort of "alternate attack mode " function, different for different types of weapons....

[Boombro]

It would be great to have the mechanical equivalent of pistol whipping - using a weapon in more than one way - specifically, the ability to wield a mage staff as a one-handed weapon which was kind of largely absent from Skyrim, maybe only when it's out of charges.

A staff would be a two handed weapon though.

[Deleted4181807User]

Long and good story

-

Massive amount of side missions

-

Open world

-

Togglable First Person/Third Person

-

Intricate massive perk trees

- Like, an ocean of perks and skills to choose from, so many that you cannot get every one in a single playthrough.

-

Naval battles à la Assassins Creed Black flag/Rouge

- I found it really cool to traverse the seas in Black Flag, but haven't tried Rouge yet, but I like what I have seen from gameplay (being boarded and such). Ship control could be improved with perk points named "Seaman" or "Navigator" or something...

-

Lock picking mechanic à la Thief

- Definitely the best lock picking mechanic, visually at least. I really like this compared to Skyrim's lock picking, simply because you are not taken out of the world to pick the lock and everything would pause to wait for you. In Thief, you have to keep an eye open to patrolling guards so you don't get caught while you fiddle with the lock. However, the visual of how you get the pins right bothers me a bit. What i'm really after is the lock picking lovechild of Thief and Skyrim.

-

Free running à la Assassins Creed/Shadow of Mordor

- This I'd imagine you don't start out with, but more or less invest perk points in to learn, as if you play a knight, scampering about walls unhindered doesn't really seem right, but if you are a thief/assassin, you need to be agile. You could learn more techniques with more perk points, sort of how Ezio learned to do the leap jump from the thieves of Venice in Brotherhood.

IMO, Shadow of Mordor has a better free running style upwards, but combine that with the sideways/downward parkour of AC Unity and we've got gold on our hands.

Expanded Nemesis system à la Shadow of Mordor

- I really enjoyed the Nemesis System, but it has just only scratched the surface of what could be done (says I, neither coder, nor game director) in terms of defining your enemies. An example could be that as you play and you "kill" an enemy, he comes back, but learns from his mistakes and stays away from towers and such if you killed him from above, or he practices his combat skills to be ready to challenge you head on. Also, you'd have a Nemesis System for each race that exists in the set game world, so not just orcs.

Body dismemberment to go with Nemesis system.

- The one thing that you can chop of in Shadow of Mordor, are the heads of the Uruks, and when you do that, they don't come back. Imagine, you take the arm or a leg of an enemy, and he returns later with a hook (or Azog the Defiler-style fork) or a peg leg, and a new title to go with his disfigured body.

Crippling System à la Fallout

- This sort of ties in with the body dismembering, but serves as a sort of guide line: If you damage the arm holding the weapon, that arm is crippled and unusable until you heal it. Damage the legs, and moving speed is reduced. Strikes to the head do more damage. I find it odd that a similar system didn't find its way to Skyrim, with Fallout being developed by Bethesda and all, but hey that's way the it is.

Advanced Fighting Mechanic

- So For Honor was a thing at E3 2015, and their melee mechanic with active blocking seems perfect for the game of my dreams.

Destructible Terrain

- Battlefield-esque, because, WHY NOT? Think epic sieges where the walls crumbles from the war machines raining stone and fire on them.

Character Creation à la Black Desert Online

- I mean WOW!, if you haven't seen this Korean game, go watch it, they have created one of the most detailed character creators i have ever seen... I just want it.

Puzzling Dungeons

- Dungeons that doesnt challenge you can become boring IMO, but too much makes it frustrating. A fine balancing act of hack-and-slash and problem solving is the winning formula. Maybe I call it "Good" Dungeons", or Zelda styled dungeon...

Intricate equipment crafting system (Kind of like fallout 4's gun/power armor customization)

- My own vision: Around the world the player can find sketches of equipment parts. Similar to how Tony Stark makes the sketches of Iron Man MK1 on several different papers, the player "swaps" design pattern by changing design prints. Various components affect the performance of the equipment. By unlocking the respective perks, the player can learn to make their own sketches by looking at weapons/armor. Some equipment might contain some sketches already encountered, but any new sketch will be learned.

Designs in weapon sketches include: Blade/Head, Hilt/handle, Cross-guard, and Pommel. Bow and arrow parts consists of upper and lower limbs, belly, arrow rest, nock, string, arrowhead, shaft, fletching. Parts are combined to create thousands of different weapons

Armor sketches can also be found, which can be combined to create unique armors. Armor sketches of various designs exist in forms of Nose guard/visor, helmet top, neck guard, pauldrons, chest plates, faulds, arms, gauntlets/bracers, leggings/breeches, and boots/shoes.

Shield sketches change form, edge, curvature, grip, spikes.

Tailors use various patterns for clothes they find around the world, but can create their own patterns by unlocking the correct perk.

Mini games à la Red Dead Redemption (Poker, Five Finger Fillet, etc)

- Also a factor that contributes to the world feeling alive and giving you stuff to do when you don't feel like saving the world. Card/Dice games, finger games, arm wrestling, wrestling, you name it.

Skirmish Planer and Executor

- My own concept: Say you lean over a strategic map of an area, and you are told by an officer or similar that the enemy will pass through from there to here tomorrow at noon. You can choose to meet them head on or plan an ambush. Place pieces representing your different troops on the map and meet up with them the day after to command them and fight with them à la Rise and Fall. You'd give the troops their orders at the planning of the attack, but if you feel like diverging from the plan in the heat of battle, you could shout out commands so at least the closest to you would follow your new lead. You can gain information of your enemy by sending spies or infiltrating them yourself, intercepting messages, corrupting their guards etc, to learn the best tactics to counter their troops. You can recruit more soldiers to your cause, by speaking to people in the world, or simply by training them in the barracks of the city you work for, but you can only support so many that you have food for and can pay in gold. Gain more gold and food by securing farms and mines around the world, by planing attacks and counter attacks. Strategies you use could be saved in a storage cloud and deployed at other players, would they run into a similar trap to the one you set. You wouldn't need to plan all of it, in fear of it becoming a chore rather than a fun thing, as the world would run itself if you let it.

Think of it like a strategy game, without the birds eye view.

Hunting/Skinning á la Red Dead Redemption

- The realistic skinning system should be everywhere where a game has you hunting wild animal and collecting their materials.

Traveling Means

- A large variety of mounts and rides, including ground, sea, and sky creatures/machines.

Stealth mechanic à la Thief

- With a realistic lighting system that conceals you in the darkness and reveals you when you step into the light. Also enemies can be fooled around with using distract actions: light sources taken out, throwing a stone to make noise, etc etc.

Grapple Tool mechanic à la Batman Arkham Series/Just Cause -ish

- Not in the way of firing it from a gun and sweeping up on the roof tops, but more as an actual climbing tool you swing to get further up with. Toss to where it sticks and rappel up or down faster than free climbing, while producing more noise than free climbing, while doing so making it not do useful when sneaking about but could allowing you to traverse "unclimbable" surfaces (straight walls etc) and swing you across crevices. Could be used both as a weapon and as a tool?

Expanded Charmameter à la Red Dead Redemption/Infamous

- Again to let the world truly come alive, it must respond to your actions. Red Dead and Infamous do this very well, with you choosing either good or evil actions. However, to further affect the world, I'd like to at another axis to the meter: Lawful - Chaotic. How it would be pulled off is tricky to put in words, since actions affecting the good - evil axis is relatively easier to separate. But what is a lawful action? How ever, it would make for some even deeper gameplay.

Modability

- Great games are generally made better when the creation tools are released to the public, and can breath new life in to games you play to the breaking point.

[Lachdonin]

 

Long and good story

 

Define good. Some people think New Vegas has a good story. I think it's rubbish. I do agree that it has to be long-ER, but there is such a thing as too-long, and good is inherently subjective. I actually thought Skyrim's stories were generally solid, but hampered by being rushed. It's kind of like a bad delivery on a joke... That doesn't mean the joke is BAD, just that you can't tell it well.

 

 

 

Massive amount of side missions

-

Open world

-

Togglable First Person/Third Person

 

Goes without saying, i think.

 

 

 

Intricate massive perk trees

- Like, an ocean of perks and skills to choose from, so many that you cannot get every one in a single playthrough.

 

I agree with the basic premise, but i don't like imposing hard restrictions. If someone WANTS to get ever perk in one playthough, why should they be forcibly restricted? You don't have to make it easy on them, but don't lock it out entirely just because YOU think its the wrong way to play.

 

 

 

Naval battles à la Assassins Creed Black flag/Rouge

- I found it really cool to traverse the seas in Black Flag, but haven't tried Rouge yet, but I like what I have seen from gameplay (being boarded and such). Ship control could be improved with perk points named "Seaman" or "Navigator" or something...

 

As much as i loved Black Flag, I've yet to see a game handle large scale naval systems remotely well... And forced switching of perspectives (when riding a horse, executing someone, or whatever) should be as limited as absolutely possible. And, frankly, i don't think naval warfare fits well enough to justify its inclusion...

 

 

 

Lock picking mechanic à la Thief

 

Agreed. The only problem i have with it is how to apply it to be more Skill-centric, and less Player-centric...

 

 

Free running à la Assassins Creed/Shadow of Mordor

 

I actually think Dying Light was a far better system than either... And it was first person. But, the issue with all freerunning systems is they tend to be somewhat wonky in first person.

 

 

Expanded Nemesis system à la Shadow of Mordor

 

Lets focus on getting NPCs and Radiant AI working properly before we go too far into applying things to enemies that are probably going to die the first time we see them... I think there's some potential to the idea, but it's not time to develop that angle yet.

 

 

 

Body dismemberment to go with Nemesis system.

Crippling System à la Fallout

 

Absolutely. The AI behaviour would have to be tweaked to encourage slower, more controlled combat, but limb-damage could add a huge tactical aspect to the game.

 

 

 

Advanced Fighting Mechanic

- So For Honor was a thing at E3 2015, and their melee mechanic with active blocking seems perfect for the game of my dreams.

 

I'm not sold on For Honor. Or Kingdom Come; Deliverance. The systems are designed around duel combat, which while present in TES is only one sort of fighting you typically engage in. In fact, from what I've seen of For Honor (that spelling sickens me...) 2 on 1 fights are laughably one sided. I think a varied attack model similar to Fallouts (with different Attack and Power Attack buttons) is a better approach, or full on adoption of Analogue Combat ala Dead Island.

 

 

 

Destructible Terrain

- Battlefield-esque, because, WHY NOT? Think epic sieges where the walls crumbles from the war machines raining stone and fire on them.

 

Really hard to do, track and can be really disconnected in terms of world design (how would you feel if that castle wall repaired in 3 days?). Limited destructibility is one thing, like doors or smashing windows, but full on Battlefield is probably a decade or more off for any game of this size.

 

 

 

Character Creation à la Black Desert Online

- I mean WOW!, if you haven't seen this Korean game, go watch it, they have created one of the most detailed character creators i have ever seen... I just want it.

 

It's basically a different display model for exactly what Fallout 4 uses. I'd be surprised if they go back to a more simplistic model, now that they seem to have fixed the sculpting problem with an actual, usable facial skeleton (god, Oblivions potato heads were hideous...)

 

 

 

Puzzling Dungeons

- Dungeons that doesnt challenge you can become boring IMO, but too much makes it frustrating. A fine balancing act of hack-and-slash and problem solving is the winning formula. Maybe I call it "Good" Dungeons", or Zelda styled dungeon...

 

The problem with problem solving dungeons, and puzzles in general, is... They're almost impossible to do without totally abandoning either Player Interaction, or Character Skill. You either present problems that you solve automatically if a skill or stat is high enough, or you rely entirely on the player (or a walkthrough) to solve it... That's not exactly a good RPG mechanic. I've frankly, never seen a system which is really synergistic between the two aspects, so unless you're presenting dungeons which are entirely impossible to solve for some characters, or just relying on Zelda-like level design (a totally different issue... We shouldn't be getting levels at all, we should be getting environments!) you're going to run into problems.

 

 

Intricate equipment crafting system (Kind of like fallout 4's gun/power armor customization)

 

This is something i think we both agree on, though i think it depends on how it's executed... Weapons, for instance, should be made and then left. It's hard to actually modify a sword after the fact, though you CAN incorporate different elements into the original construction. This could be long winded, but i want to know what you (and others here) think about this idea...

 

 

 

 

Basically, swap Weapons and Armour from Skyrim. Weapons become simple, and while you can apply little modifications like sharpening, or a chained hilt, they're mostly just subject to the particular design you use to craft it.

Armour, on the other hand, is assembled from pieces either made or collected to form equipable items. You have the same number of slots as Fallout 4 (more or less... armour would be the same, but with clothing and 'outerwear' -Cloaks, tabards etc- you'd have more) but each slot consists of an assemblage of pieces to create a unique item. So, for instance, your Chest clot may be assembled from an Ebony Breastplate, a Mithril Dominion Eagle Gorget, a Mithril Dominion Lion Plackard, and an Adamantium Akaviri Kurazuri. The combined pieces determine the stats of the equipped item, but you can alter the pieces at a workbench/armourers stand.

 

This type of model could work easily by using a consistent rigging on limbs which is applied 'invisibly' regardless of the pieces, and just applying the models onto that rigging automatically to make them visually appear. It would probably lead to clipping glitches for some component combinations, but who really cares when you have millions, if not billions of combinations?

 

Slap on a variable material system where the material used influences the colour and texture, but not the model (like Dragon Age; Inquisition) and you have probably the single most variable armour system in a video game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mini games à la Red Dead Redemption (Poker, Five Finger Fillet, etc)

- Also a factor that contributes to the world feeling alive and giving you stuff to do when you don't feel like saving the world. Card/Dice games, finger games, arm wrestling, wrestling, you name it.

 

Again, agreed... Though the games themselves are somewhat of a risk. You shouldn't just port real-world games into Tamriel for the sake of them. A collectable card game in a Dark-Medieval setting (IE Gwent in The Witcher III) felt really out of place to me... Playing cards, sure, but a game like that was just weird.

 

 

Skirmish Planer and Executor

 

I have thought of something similar, tied more into Guild Management. Being able to send guild members out on contracts instead of always doing them yourself, and having members of those organizations interact more with the world. It could easily be tied into a trade and disruption system (which we've had in 4X games for 20 years) to give you more command influence, without always being the errand boy.

 

 

 

Hunting/Skinning á la Red Dead Redemption

- The realistic skinning system should be everywhere where a game has you hunting wild animal and collecting their materials.

 

This is more an issue with how TES games handle looting. There may be some potential for it in the future, as there are circumstantial inventory additions in Fallout (if you kill someone with a Plasma Weapon they can sometimes generate Nuclear Material) but something more like Far Cry is unlikely, simply because it really requires a secondary looting mechanic.

 

 

 

Grapple Tool mechanic à la Batman Arkham Series/Just Cause -ish

 

I've never seen a game actually accomplish that, which makes me wonder if we can really do it... Grappling hooks, sure. Those are totally doable, and we've had similar mechanics since 2000 (Rope Arrows in the original Thief; The Dark Project). But swinging is a more complicated beast.

 

 

 

Expanded Charmameter à la Red Dead Redemption/Infamous

- Again to let the world truly come alive, it must respond to your actions. Red Dead and Infamous do this very well, with you choosing either good or evil actions. However, to further affect the world, I'd like to at another axis to the meter: Lawful - Chaotic. How it would be pulled off is tricky to put in words, since actions affecting the good - evil axis is relatively easier to separate. But what is a lawful action? How ever, it would make for some even deeper gameplay.

 

 

Morality tools are, IMO, total rubbish. Morality is inherently subjective. It's also weirdly hive-mind in how your actions seem to impact the opinions of everyone. In Fable, where your physical form actually changes based on your alignment, but in Red Dead it felt forced and mechanical for the sake of 'being edgy'(kind of like the abundance of breasts and sex in games these days...).

I for one would much rather a functioning disposition system with more accommodation for inter-NPC relationships. If you help someone out, they'll mention their friends, and you may see a ripple effect throughout town, but people 2 cities over aren't going to care. attach this to some accomplish-based triggers (such as, say, after you've been caught stealing 5 times the Guards may start following you around) and you've got a more realistic system that simulates interpersonal interactions better than a moral compass.

 

 

 

Modability

- Great games are generally made better when the creation tools are released to the public, and can breath new life in to games you play to the breaking point.

 

 

Absolutely agree... though i also rather like the delayed approach with the modding tools. It's hard to appreciate mods if you don't experience the vanilla product.

[Boombro]

I agree with all your points Lachdonin.

 

Okay here is some of my suggestion.

 

Better and more in depth loot system:

 

In fallout 4 there the legendary drop system. Here it how it works for those who don't know:

 

 

In short, there is a level list with all the weapons spawns can use. But legendary spawns use a legendary weapons or armor that have enchantments of them that are very random.

Here is some of them:

[Enemy type] slaying.
Never ending ammo.
Nighteye for scope.
More damage on second hit.
More damage on full health.
Poison or radiation damage.
Better in night/day.

And there is more to fit many play styles.

 

 

Skyrim problem is the to get the best gear, you always have to make them yourself. Not only they are custom to fit your needs, but the numbers are higher. Fallout 4 flipped it the other way with this, so those who don't want to craft can get good gear even if they don't wish to mod the weapon.

 

The problem is that it is random. You have no idea what you will get, and the most important WHEN you will get it. You can spend hours either save/reload or roaming the world or just five seconds.

 

TES can really make use of an improved system. Basically use the same feature but split the level list to different type of actors for not only easier farming, but also harder combat, make explorers have the chance to get good gear and make joining faction has more benefits since they will have factions only enchantments.

 

Example:

 

Vampires: can makes use of gear that work better in night time/low light levels, improve blood magic and undead related stuff.
Were beast hunters: can wear armor that protects them from were beasts and deal more damage and/or more effects.
Assassins: full health bonus damage and ignore armor.
Argonians: disease/poison and better in rain/water.

 

 

Bette starts:

​Starts are critical for a good world introduction in open world games like TES. However, TES games are RPG games with a lot of RP value, you will make a lot of new games.

Having to go through the Skyrim start every time is nightmare. It long and windy and odd. It just argh. A start with a lot of options can be great.

 

 

As always we will start in a prison/jail. Maybe the jail is attacked by the main evil faction that has a major role for some reson or another.

As soon as the game starts, you go in the jail and fill papers (race, gender, class and skills.) You are then locked up and notice the guard hangs the key on his belt.

Options:
Steal the key.
Steal the key and sneak away.
Kill the gaurd when he/she is alone to get the key.
Sleep in bed to skip time till the attack.
Kill all the gaurds since there was a weapon nearby.

When the prsion is attacked. You can:
Help the gaurds, they will release you for bravry.
Help the main evil faction and have the chance to join them. Come on beth, JUST DO IT!
Do nothing/hide. They all end up dead abd you can leave.
Run away.

It can be mid length, it has have RP and replay value and not that hard to do.

 

 

 

Main quest disable:

The more beth made games, the harder it is to escape the main quest.

In oblivion, all you had to do was to not enter a building and ignore a city that is useless anyways.

In Skyrim you can't, a whole another main questline needs you to kill a dragon and the jarl sends you to get a dragonstone to advance the quest as soon as you enter dragon reach.

 

 

I want the main quest to be less binding. I want the ability to ignore it without not making any sense or the ability to disable it by dropping an item, killing an npc or not doing or doing an action etc. I want to say f*#@ the main quest, I don't care about it whatsoever. Let me do my own thing.

 

 

Simple life enhanced:

It would be great to have quests or features to have the life of a farmer/miner/mail man/guard etc and make living off that way. You can work for a faction too as a worker in exchange for small money and living space and build some cash. This is easy to do and can be done today. It great for RP in so many ways.

 

 

More housing options:

I should be able to buy my own house as soon as I enter the city, and there should be apartments to buy along side the houses.

I should have the option to build inside the house like fallout 4, or buy a set from the store.

Villages should have houses, or you can build those.

 

 

More and better mounts:

What the point of a fantasy world and only using horses? I want more stuff to ride.

I should be able to armor the horse, store stuff in it saddle bag and whisper for it to come for me.

[fraquar]

The Main Quest in Skyrim was fine, the problem was it's introduction. Just fix that and make it become triggered to a later in-game event(s) - (preferably once you have developed your character a little bit) and it's all good. Something on the scale of Dragons though becomes impossible to ignore in the opening 5 minutes of the game.

 

What would have made more sense in Skyrim would have been to be introduced to the Blades before the first Dragon encounter - not after. I mean it's not like they can go investigate on their own, they are being hunted down. You'd be doing their bidding to find the first evidence that there is indeed an event of epic proportions in the making. Before you could be introduced, they'd need to know you are worthy of the "risk" to expose themselves to you - by previous in-game events/accomplishments.

 

The way it was introduced in Skyrim, it's impossible to ignore without a 3rd party mod that eliminates the Dragon sighting at Helgen to begin with.

[Boombro]

 

The Main Quest in Skyrim was fine, the problem was it's introduction.

It was not fine.

 

It very binding and set you as the dragonborn. Chosen hero thing is old, bad for RPG and it just not a good idea. Shouts can be useful for many builds you and don't have to be the good hero. But no.

Dragons spawn system is not that great too. It good on paper but it happens all the time, and more of push over than a big legendary monster back from hell. If they were in wordwalls, dragon mounds and in some dungeons, that would be cooler.

 

 

make it become triggered to a later in-game event(s)

Make the main quest trigger later? No, main quest should be the main quest and your first quest ever. But it should easily be ignored/disabled.

 

 

Something on the scale of Dragons though becomes impossible to ignore in the opening 5 minutes of the game.

Good point. It should start simple and on small scale so it logical for the player to ignore for more important matters. Maybe start like FNV. Where the player is shot in the head and looks for the man who buried him alive and it turns out way bigger.

 

 

 

What would have made more sense in Skyrim would have been to be introduced to the Blades before the first Dragon encounter - not after.

It doesn't make sense for the blades to show up just because of a dragon. There are there for the dragonborn, not dragons.

 

 

mean it's not like they can go investigate on their own, they are being hunted down. You'd be doing their bidding to find the first evidence that there is indeed an event of epic proportions in the making

The only reason they trust you is because you are dragonborn. There is no reason to trust you with their lives otherwise.

And they can. They just have to be careful and have connections. And they have already did.

 

 

Before you could be introduced, they'd need to know you are worthy of the "risk" to expose themselves to you - by previous in-game events/accomplishments.

Even more binding, because you have to do something worthy first.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Boombro

[fraquar]

The Main Quest cannot be easily ignored, once you have been set on it. It's the Main Quest for a reason, it is the overriding quest in the game. No matter what game you play.

 

You can't be set in stone as the Dragonborn, then say meh, I want to go kill Vampires instead, or say meh I want to adopt two kids and channel my inner Merlin Olsen/Little House.....

[Boombro]

 

The Main Quest cannot be easily ignored, once you have been set on it. It's the Main Quest for a reason, it is the overriding quest in the game. No matter what game you play.

Older beth games say otherwise.

 

Morrowind: kill a main quest npc or drop item and you have disabled the MQ. Forever and ever.

Oblivion: Just don't question a man in a building that is useless.

Fo3: Never ask about your dad. There is a vault you find that completes a stage of the main quest, but you can ignore it easily and it useless.

 

 

Skyrim: Don't go to dragon reach, don't do the war questline, don't go to bleak falls borrow. Don't go near any wordwall that near is near any major chest rooms in nordic dungeons and dragon nests.

Can you spot the problem?

 

You can also ignore these quest and in a logical manner if you wish:

 

Oblivion: An old man gives you a necklace and says the world in danger because of a dream, you can think he is crazy.

Morrowind: a delivery quest. enough said.

Fo3: Look for a father that ran away and pretty much left you to die/be imprisoned.

 

They all don't climax to a big deal till very well into the game.

 

Skyrim doesn't have that. The world is invaded by freaking dragons. And you learn a bit after that the world is ending and you the only one that can stop it.

How can anyone ignore such a thing? Even the most selfish bad guys will want to do something about the end of the freaking world.