Why I'm voting for Bush

[surian]

Cmac, Bush did not graduate "top of his class" he got 'gentleman's C's' which means that his daddy was powerful enough that the administration didn't give him the failing grades he deserved. Now, that's not to say that he is stupid because I don't believe he is, I think he's a bad president. His college years where during the time when he was having some problems with drinking and drug abuse (probably) but to be honest, I dont' care. In fact, these days I wouldn't trust someone who DIDN'T experiement with these things (or claimed not to).

[Maquissar]

So you think the fact that Hussein is evil justifies the war. I strongly disagree. There are so many countries out there that are ruled by malicious dictators and/or evil groups or malifactor governments. Some of them even pose a threat to the US. So why go to Iraq? And noone can deny the fact that Bush and his admisitration did lie about connections between 9/11, and sents hundreds and hundreds to their deaths.

Oh, but I am sure that the Bush administration wouldn't mind taking care of those others "rogue states" who belong to the Axis of Evil... in the interests of world peace, that's obvious...

 

hmm, let me see... after he's taken care of Iraq who's next? Well, geographically speaking, the next steps would be Iran and Syria... they are both dangerous countries which might harbor terrorists... besides, they aren't democracies, and democracy must be exported in the rest of the world, and history has proven that brutal force is the most reliable way of bringing civilization to savages...

Then it'd be Lybia, maybe Cuba, and North Korea. Once these dangerous countries have been defeated, we would be one step closer to world peace...

So, unless the famed and dangerous Canadian terrorists show up, the final step to achieve global peace would be to defeat the last stronghold of Evil, that is, China.

 

And after the US and China have (thermo-nuclearily speaking) blown their arses out, then peace would reign undisturbed - for the dozen people who manage to survive.

 

No matter which way you look at it... the very concept of 'pre-emptive war' is a highly dangerous one, and the Bush administration has set a dangerous precedent. What if the Arab states apply the same principle and decide to attack the US pre-emptively, before the US decide to start a pre-emptive war against them?

[Scrimshaw]

But then Bush diverted their whole focus to Iraq, which had absolutely NO connection with 9/11. If we wanted to respond to 9/11 so badly, we would've taken all the money we could've spent on Iraq, and put it into Afghanistan, where there was relevance to 9/11.

 

 

Bush didn't "divert" the focus to Iraq. Our entire government, including all the Democrats in the Intelligence Committee, received intellegience reports indicating that Saddam was currently in possession of WMDs and may have had the ability to DEPLOY them. In the super-sensitive post 9-11 atomosphere, it is not surprising that our entire government (including Kerry and most other Dems!) voted for the use of force in Iraq. So please quit spewing your lies by saying that Bush single-handedly went to war with Iraq. The US used force in Iraq only AFTER getting full bipartisan consent from all the branches of government.

 

The main reason why I am voting for Kerry is that I cannot forgive Bush for what he has done.

 

Yes, how evil!!! He got rid of an evil tyrant thug (Saddam) who terrorized his own country for 30 years!! Yes, we can never forgive "Bush" for removing that brutal regime and helping to give the Iraq people at least a CHANCE to be free, and build a democracy!! Yes, how perfectly EVIL!! How can we forgive such atrocity? (wink, wink)

 

But here's the kicker.......Kerry also voted to go to war with Iraq. So why in the hell have you forgiven him??? Your position makes no sense whatsoever.

 

And, he got away with needlessly sending hundreds and hundreds of Americans to their death

 

Uh, Kerry voted for the war in Iraq too. Are you ignorant of this fact, or do you just continuously choose to ignore it so you can bash Bush? Also, fighting to give Iraq the chance to be FREE is a very noble cause. It is not needless. Freedom is the cause that America has ALWAYS fought for. The fact that we are a country willing to put our own lives on the line to help give others a chance to be free is one of the things that distinguishes America from most other countries in the world. So when you say our troops in Iraq died "needlessly", you are basically saying:

 

1) You don't give a rats azz about the Iraq people. You don't care if they ever live in freedom. You would be perfectly happy if Saddam had stayed in power and continued to rule them under a rod of terror, fear, and abuse.

 

2) You think "freedom" and "democracy" is a "needless" cause to fight for.

 

I have hard time considering those views to be patriotic or "american". They are anything BUT. You sound like a "less than educated" Michael Moore victim who has bought into a quite a bit of rhetoric and propaganda. But if you are willing to open your mind and consider the facts, there is hope for you.

[Maquissar]

Yes, how evil!!! He got rid of an evil tyrant thug (Saddam) who terrorized his own country for 30 years!! Yes, we can never forgive "Bush" for removing that brutal regime and helping to give the Iraq people at least a CHANCE to be free, and build a democracy!! Yes, how perfectly EVIL!! How can we forgive such atrocity? (wink, wink)

Burma (military regime)

China (communist state - therefore EVIL)

Congo (dictatorship - MAYBE in transition to some form of democracy)

Cuba (communist state - see China)

Iran (theocratic republic)

North Korea (communist state AND dictatorship)

Laos (communist state)

Lybia (a military dictatorship)

Sudan (authoritarian regime)

Syria (republic under military regime)

Vietnam (communist state)

 

This is only a PARTIAL list, for getting started, of states in which you might want to export democracy someday. Of course, you might also want to take care of other problems... for example, Tibet is militarily occupied by China since the 1950s. I am sure there are many more examples like this. Good luck in bringing peace and freedom to the world.

[Scrimshaw]

Burma (military regime)

China (communist state - therefore EVIL)

Congo (dictatorship - MAYBE in transition to some form of democracy)

Cuba (communist state - see China)

Iran (theocratic republic)

North Korea (communist state AND dictatorship)

Laos (communist state)

Lybia (a military dictatorship)

Sudan (authoritarian regime)

Syria (republic under military regime)

Vietnam (communist state)

 

This is only a PARTIAL list, for getting started, of states in which you might want to export democracy someday. Of course, you might also want to take care of other problems... for example, Tibet is militarily occupied by China since the 1950s. I am sure there are many more examples like this. Good luck in bringing peace and freedom to the world.

 

Yes, there are other countries that have similar problems. No one ever claimed that Iraq was the only country with a brutal government, so I'm not sure why people feel the need make those lists. The US, as the beacon of democracy in the world, has a moral responsibility to do whatever it can to promote freedom and democracy wherever it can. But each of the countries you listed are unique situations with different circumstances surrounding them. Some may be resolved through diplomatic/economic pressure, others may require military intervention. But in order for us to know for sure, we need to have proper intelligence capabilities, so making our intelligence agencies get in line with the 9-11 Commission's report is very important.

 

But there will always be rogue countries the civilized world will have to confront. This will never change.

[UberBender]

First it's "Teh war is tottaly bad!"

 

And now it's "We need moor war!"

 

We only have so many resources. Hitler tryed to fight war on every front and look what happened to him.

 

We need to take our time. (not that I think we have much left.)

 

I do think we should "do" Cuba right away, I have lots of Cuban friends (I live in Florida) and they all hate Castro and want him elliminated. It's kind of weird having a comunist paradise so close and not being at war with it.

[Zmid]

The main reason why I am voting for Kerry is that I cannot forgive Bush for what he has done.

 

Yes, how evil!!! He got rid of an evil tyrant thug (Saddam) who terrorized his own country for 30 years!! Yes, we can never forgive "Bush" for removing that brutal regime and helping to give the Iraq people at least a CHANCE to be free, and build a democracy!! Yes, how perfectly EVIL!! How can we forgive such atrocity? (wink, wink)

The one and only reason both the US and UK went to war was WMD. This is clearly set out in the objectives given for Operation Telic (the British part of the Iraq War, you can see a quote from it in my sig) and the testimony given by Douglas Freith, US Under Secretary of Defense, to the Senate Foreign Relations committee on 11th February 2003.

 

Geeting rid of Saddam was a BY-PRODUCT, nothing more.

[ThetaOrionis01]

The US, as the beacon of democracy in the world, has a moral responsibility to do whatever it can to promote freedom and democracy wherever it can.

Don't you mean 'where it suits the US?'

 

Examples:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/chile/story/0,13...1038615,00.html

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,736...,469208,00.html

[postaldudeleo]

In response to people saying, why not go onto all the other tyrants or countries harboring terrorists.....

 

Well I say, why not?

 

Ill tell you why not, cause to many people switched sides agianst war. Why did they switch, because soldiers dy in war. Well you know what, why do didnt they just assasinate saddam and all of his high assistants and there you go, no war.

 

But no, you have declare war when you go to war and post all big military actions on cnn for all to see. Of course america will have a hard time and lose soldiers in war because they play to fair by rules established by UN. Why do we lose soldier, cause people here are being to big pu**ies to go to war with other means. hey why not just kill saddam while hes not in hiding and skip the whole warfare......thingy.

 

its not bushes fault, he not a good president but the war is not his damn fault........

 

 

Plus, how can anybody compare bush and hitler.......................?

[Maquissar]

I didn't think I actually needed to make a post to point that out, but I was being sarcastic when I made a list of the other countries the US would need to attack. I was not REALLY saying that the US needs to attack all those countries or topple their governments.

 

And as for the US being the "beacon of democracy" and a paladin of the world - I do not agree with that. It is true, the US has helped us out in the past, and has liberated Europe from the Nazi. But as Theta pointed out, the US also installed dictatorship in South America. The US also stole North America from Native Americans, exterminating entire tribes, and breaking many treaties. The fact is, the USA - just like any other country - hasn't been the same throughout the 228 years of its existance. Some times it has been an example and an inspiration, while other times it has still been an example, but a negative one.

 

No one appointed you the task of policing the world, after all. You can do it because you are CURRENTLY the strongest country in the world, after the fall of the USSR, but beware - China is a close second, and Europe is growing. I do not mean to sound threatening with these words - just do not think that YOU are the shepherds and we are the sheep :)

 

And one last thing - you can't change a millenary tradition by exporting democracy with force. Change comes slowly, and in the end, force solves very little.