Rights, Freedoms and Safety in today's United States

[kvnchrist]

 

 

These speak for themselves. I wish you peace in your ideology.

What? What kind of ideology? Is "i don't give a damn" now some sort of ideology?

>>>>>>That is why we can not depend wholly on the government. We all most be vigilant. I wonder if so many people would have been harmed if someone had observed either of the two bombers dropping these backpacks and walked away.

And you try to flag some kind of ideology on me when you promote a snitch system?

Hey, there were policemen and national guard all over the place and Bomb sniffing Dogs right on the finnish line, who didn't sniff the bomb. And the Guards were watching the race instead of the crowd.

 

 

Everyone has their own ideology. If you wish to understand more, please read this:

 

An ideology is a set of conscious and unconscious ideas that constitute one's goals, expectations, and actions. An ideology is a comprehensive vision, a way of looking at things (compare worldview) as in several philosophical tendencies (see political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society (a "received consciousness" or product of socialization).Ideologies are systems of abstract thought applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political or economic tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought.

 

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology

 

I did not say that having one was right or wrong. though, I think yours is wrong for me.

 

 

The term snitch is juvenile at best and doesn't come close to defining being vigilant, when being so might just save yourself or a loved you.

To add to that your timeline is off. The dogs were there prior to the event, not during.

 

I'm sorry, but you seem to personalize things and I have no wish to make this about you and I. I refuse to add any more length to this drama. I wished you well before and I do so again. Farewell!

[Lisnpuppy]

If we can't stay on topic and people can not post to the topic and remain civil (I am talking to everyone here) then I will simply close the topic.

[Tidus44]

Interesting that as the Boston bombing occurred Canada was updating it's Anti-Terrorism Act. The parliamentary discussions followed along a senate report that identified what was considered important to have within the law.

From the report; what was felt to be fundamental and carefully considered;

 

"With respect to Canada’s anti-terrorism framework and the objective of balancing the need to protect the security of Canadians with the need to protect and preserve rights and freedoms, we have identified the following 13 general issues as requiring comment and the attention of government:"

 

“A response to terrorism within the rule of law preserves and enhances the cherished liberties that are essential to democracy.”

and

"A successful anti-terrorism strategy requires other key components (besides just good law). The threat of terrorism must also be addressed by effective use of resources to accumulate reliable intelligence regarding terrorists and their activities, by comprehensive review and oversight of the agencies which gather intelligence and protect the safety of Canada, and by the actions of citizens, who have a responsibility to ensure their own security."

 

I point out just 2 of the 13 as they follow along with the questions in this thread.

 

I think this is a significant difference between the USA and certainly Canada and (likely) other countries. Canada has pretty much exactly the same rights and freedoms as the USA. But these rights and freedoms are not seen specifically as "my rights", but more so "our rights" and are rules guiding interaction between citizens and that hold both responsibility and accountability. Rights and freedoms are not something to benefit and protect just the individual, they are there to benefit and protect everyone.

 

And just to address the point, while I appreciate some may feel the US is the most free and has the most rights, the World Freedom Report is done annually and looks at security and safety, movement, expression and relationship freedoms, civil liberties such as freedom of speech, religion, individual economic choice, association and assembly; as well as indicators of crime and violence, freedom of movement, legal discrimination and women's freedoms, amongst other criteria; again in 2013 countries are ranked as;

1. New Zealand

2. Netherlands

3. Hong Kong

4. Australia

5. Canada

6. Ireland

7. United States of America

8. Denmark

9. Japan

10. Estonia

 

The World Index of Democracy (2010) is based on five categories: electoral process and pluralism; civil liberties; the functioning of government; political participation; and political culture. The US ranks 17th (out of 26 "Fully Democratic" countries).

About the only freedom/right measured that the USA comes out at the very top is a tie with Yemen as the most lax when it comes to the purchase, possession and open carry of firearms, according to the Gun Rights Index (2011).

 

Government can't make you safe. They can only make laws and establish a system of safety and security. If citizens ignore these systems and do not involve them self where they can and accept that rights and freedoms are also a responsibility with accountability, then all the rights and freedoms are meaningless words on paper because the criminals won't be interested in honoring anyone's rights, freedoms or safety.

[Lisnpuppy]

Interesting bit of stuff there Tidus. I would note also...that the United States is a Republic. There is very little direct voting on things done here. Most that is done is on a local level (like in your particular city.) So I suspect that knocks the US down some pegs.

 

Anyway...you are right that criminals will ignore laws that prohibit them to do one thing or another. Laws like that really aren't made to actually stop people from doing things, its to be able to prosecute an individual that breaks the law.

 

Also my main issues is not prohibitory laws, but rather laws that are made to circumvent rights and freedoms spelled out in the Constitution. The Patriot Act that we have discussed does this very well. It allows for search and seizures, wiretapping and other surveillance without specific warrants or without the traditional wiretapping laws which were much more well-defined. It allows the government to "judge shop" in order to find a judge who will be more inclined to give them warrants when needed. It redefines terrorism in such a way as to allow too much ambiguity so that it can be applied to things that traditionally would not have been named so.

 

In fact the Patriot Act even could effect B.C citizens in Canada as it could search Canadian citizen's medical records that are outsourced to the U.S.

 

So this is more my concern than laws that say you can't do this or that. It is the government's ability to circumvent the rights of its people in the name of "safety" that causes me to worry. KVN is right that the fact that most people do not have a clue as to the laws that govern them is an easy way for the government to control them. You really don't have to do a great deal to control an uninformed populace.

[Boaresa]

Quote

The World Index of Democracy

I think that to many westerners associate freedom with democracy is a big problem.

Quote

I would note also...that the United States is a Republic.

Democracy isn't a synonym for "freedom" as less monarchy is a synonym for serfdome. In pre WW1 Austria people had way more economical and social freedoms than today. But as soon democracy and the need for people to believe that government can be good became a state religion, its easier to take freedom away as long everyone believes its to protect the higher cause of mambo jambo.

 

A good example is the mentioning of "female rights" in this strange Index. What rights do a woman more have than a man? What are "rights"? We have a conceptual confusion already with those things. People think a right is a entitlement to stuff. I have a right to my life and a right to my liberty. Lilteraly this means i have the right to be left alone and not be burded with taxes and laws what to eat, what to drink, what to take and what to do. Europeans think, that a right is a entitlement like the right to housing and healthcare. The UNO listens these demands as basic human rights, which might be sound good for a adult child but infact eliminates the basic right to liberty. Someone has to pay for every demand someone gets, violating his rights.

 

And let me say something about this "female rights" stuff just because it realy pushes buttons on me. As soon women were able to vote, government became from a institution of the defence of its citizens freedom against forgein aggression to a institution that should solve daily life problems. Our society is dominated by women, controlled by women and the results you see in this change. Men vote for less taxation and less government so that they could carry on with their own lifes without the need to spend more working time to feed government services and officials. Women vote for more benifites, welfare, socialism and mostly emotional stuff. Why? Because women look out for someone handle their problems. They are women, they don't get their hands dirty themself. And they are very usefull to those who wanna extend government powers. And as more they get they more they complain and blame man. Women spending is totaly over 20 Trillion USD Worldwide, thats 70% of the Worlds consum spending. They live longer and they retire earlier and don't get drafted except for israel. Doesn't sound oppressed to me. They don't even get less money, they get more according to the statistics and pointed out by Thomas Sowell already in the 1970's. They don't get less they just spend more for useless junk and than blame everyone else for it. And then they dare, they DARE to name their suffering in one line with the victims of racism and slavery.

 

Women get more entitlements to government money while what men wanna do gets restricted more and more. Building regulations, hunting regulations, driving licenses, weapon owning and carring restrictions, No one seams to give a damn about when men lose their rights which are very basic of our civilisation.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Boaresa

[Lisnpuppy]

Boaresa...you are completely off topic. I am not even going to address your other diatribe because it doesn't deserve it. Either keep on the topic and keep your post civil or I will request moderation...or I will moderate it myself.

[Boaresa]

Boaresa...you are completely off topic. I am not even going to address your other diatribe because it doesn't deserve it. Either keep on the topic and keep your post civil or I will request moderation...or I will moderate it myself.

 

 

The Topic is named "Replying to Rights, Freedoms and Safety in today's United States" and i'am talking about rights. You said a few posts earlier something about behavior and didn't even address the case. Whats is your deal? You seam like you want to threat with ,moderation' while don't even address the reasons for it.

[Lisnpuppy]

As stated in my first post:

The Boston Marathon Bombings has once again brought into sharp focus a few issues. These being how safe can we make ourselves in the U.S? What rights should be maintained, even for the people charged of such a crime? Lastly, what freedoms should all people have and are we willing to give up rights and freedoms (for ourselves and for others) in order to ensure the safety of the general populace?

 

Now if you want to talk about how you disagree with women's rights go start that topic. It has nothing to do with this one. I politely asked that people stay on topic and you chose to discuss something completely different. It has nothing to do with what I set in the above paragraph. It can not even be said to be a side topic. Also I find your post (as I am a woman) to be offensive to say the least. In fact, least I get my hands dirty..I will just go ahead and report it for moderation.

[Boaresa]

Why do you try to set a debate barrier especialy when it hits the point of "rights"? I mean, do you realize that the boston bombings are just one facet, one case, one pretense to take rights away with the excuse to make "people safe". The list goes on and on and way more then a bombing on a public event. I don't see whats the purpose should be by setting up a barrier to every issue that affect rights further then the bombing.

Also I find your post (as I am a woman) to be offensive to say the least.

So if you see this as a personal issue say so and don't assert i wouldn't stay on topic.

 

Ofcourse you are offended, women are always offended. Being offended is in modern days america mightier then truth of facts. Feelings are more important are facts. You just approved what i said, thanks.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Boaresa

[Zaldir]

SNIP

Now, I can only speak for Norway, not the US, but:

• Women and men vote equally on taxation and welfare. You talk about taxation as a bad thing, which is generally an immature way to look at it.
• Women get their hands just as dirty as men do.
• Yes, women live longer, but retire at the same age as men do (normally).
• Women do, and have always gotten less pay than men. The fact that you have to dig up a statistic from the 1970's really says it all. It is a fact that women get less pay than men, though this issue is being resolved (at least here).
• As for you last "point": women build, women hunt, women drive, women own and carry weapons. What exactly is your point..?

You might want to take your ancient views elsewhere.