Handling swordfighting: an example.

[Urwy]

While stumbling around the interwebz i came across this glorious game: Chivalry - Medieval Warfare.

 

 

This made me wonder, anyone thinks Bethesda could take some ques from these guys? Because this is how i'd imagine swordfighting should be handled in any game.

 

Anyway, i thought i'd show this to the rest of you to share a smile about the fact that Bethesda got outdone at their own game; first person swordfighting. =)

 

Anyone else know any other games that show how Bethesda should handle combat in future TES titles?

[jackowonderful]

sure, looks cool.

[billyro]

Chivalry is quite difficult to get the hang of, and while it is a lot more realistic than Skyrim, it is frustrating because of some mechanics.

 

For example, in Chivalry, blocking with a weapon lasts roughly half a second, and if you don't time it right, you die. In a real battle, as long as you put your weapon in front of the blow before if reaches you, you will block it (provided you have good hand-eye coordination). Of course, being too early will be disadvantageous to you since the incoming weapon has momentum and you've lost yours by trying to intercept too early.

 

Also, I find that the gameplay is too tense in Chivalry. Fighting is fluid in real life, where reactions are very fast, actions can be cancelled in a heartbeat, dodging is possible midswing etc.

 

And another thing, is if you hit someone with a sword, THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN PAIN. It's very unimmersive when I chop someone and they continue on fighting as if nothing had even happened, except that their health bar decreased a bit. Realistically, if your opponent gets through your defense even once, you are at a severe disadvantage and will most likely die.

For example: I chop someone in their sword arm with an axe. They are practically done for - they should flee from battle because there is no way they can defeat me now.

 

So yeah, those are a few points that I reckon could improve the combat. :)

I know that this would be very difficult to do in a Skyrim mod, but this is more a gripe with all games than a suggestion for a mod. Sorry for getting off topic. :)

 

Anyway, if you want brutal combat like Chivalry, have a go at Requiem or grab Combat Damage Multipliers.

Edited April 28, 2013 by billyro

[Rennn]

Chivalry is quite difficult to get the hang of, and while it is a lot more realistic than Skyrim, it is frustrating because of some mechanics.

 

For example, in Chivalry, blocking with a weapon lasts roughly half a second, and if you don't time it right, you die. In a real battle, as long as you put your weapon in front of the blow before if reaches you, you will block it (provided you have good hand-eye coordination). Of course, being too early will be disadvantageous to you since the incoming weapon has momentum and you've lost yours by trying to intercept too early.

 

Also, I find that the gameplay is too tense in Chivalry. Fighting is fluid in real life, where reactions are very fast, actions can be cancelled in a heartbeat, dodging is possible midswing etc.

 

And another thing, is if you hit someone with a sword, THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN PAIN. It's very unimmersive when I chop someone and they continue on fighting as if nothing had even happened, except that their health bar decreased a bit. Realistically, if your opponent gets through your defense even once, you are at a severe disadvantage and will most likely die.

For example: I chop someone in their sword arm with an axe. They are practically done for - they should flee from battle because there is no way they can defeat me now.

 

So yeah, those are a few points that I reckon could improve the combat. :smile:

 

Everything that he said.

[Urwy]

 

Chivalry is quite difficult to get the hang of, and while it is a lot more realistic than Skyrim, it is frustrating because of some mechanics.

 

-snip-

 

So yeah, those are a few points that I reckon could improve the combat. :smile:

 

Everything that he said.

 

Can't argue with that as i partially share those thoughts.

 

I have tried Requiem, and must admit it makes the game that much more challenging. However, it also contained some other tweaks i found less entertaining. Such as those horrendous imagespace modifiers used by poisons, which wouldnt be turned off by the console commands that were supposed to. (i know, it's the mods purpose to challenge, not entertain)

and while the block duration is somewhat short with half a second, i believe they did get the blocking mechanic just right. It prevents a fight from becoming a spamfest of blocking until your opponent makes a mistake.

Also, the fact that you're able to decide what kind of attack your going to use just adds to the feeling that you can actually control or influence the fight you're in, instead of just swinging left and right on normal attack, making combat alot more tactical while still allowing for the "chopstick swinging" of Tes4/Tes5. Chivalry did lack the concept of power attacks, which is definitely a plus for the TES games.

 

tl;dr: i'm just hoping we'll see some semblance of these mechanics in future TES games, not necessarily Skyrim. I've already given up hope on mods for the sword fighting mechanics themselves and am taking the game for what it is now. Luckily there's still magic to avoid using a sword. =)

[Vanadinit]

Total agree with billyro. However if you want more intense and difficultly fights you can try this one http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/3646/ it is "Duke Patricks - Archery And Heavy Weapons Combat" modification who is for me total awesome when I compare it to all other content who is out for the Skyrim melee and archery combat. This guy who made the mod is a SCA tournament fighter with 30 years of medieval western heavy weapons experience.

 

I have wrote that in some topics before but Bethesda should really get Arcane Studios for the melee part of the game because their two games Dark messiah of might and magic and Dishonored are excellent in melee combat and animations.

And you all know Arcane already published under Bethesda Dishonored so it should not be a real problem that they work together in the future?!

[billyro]

 

 

Chivalry is quite difficult to get the hang of, and while it is a lot more realistic than Skyrim, it is frustrating because of some mechanics.

 

-snip-

 

So yeah, those are a few points that I reckon could improve the combat. :smile:

 

Everything that he said.

 

Can't argue with that as i partially share those thoughts.

 

I have tried Requiem, and must admit it makes the game that much more challenging. However, it also contained some other tweaks i found less entertaining. Such as those horrendous imagespace modifiers used by poisons, which wouldnt be turned off by the console commands that were supposed to. (i know, it's the mods purpose to challenge, not entertain)

and while the block duration is somewhat short with half a second, i believe they did get the blocking mechanic just right. It prevents a fight from becoming a spamfest of blocking until your opponent makes a mistake.

Also, the fact that you're able to decide what kind of attack your going to use just adds to the feeling that you can actually control or influence the fight you're in, instead of just swinging left and right on normal attack, making combat a lot more tactical while still allowing for the "chopstick swinging" of Tes4/Tes5. Chivalry did lack the concept of power attacks, which is definitely a plus for the TES games.

 

tl;dr: i'm just hoping we'll see some semblance of these mechanics in future TES games, not necessarily Skyrim. I've already given up hope on mods for the sword fighting mechanics themselves and am taking the game for what it is now. Luckily there's still magic to avoid using a sword. =)

 

Hahahaha, yes, that is my absolute biggest gripe with Requiem.

 

I reckon a good mechanic would be to merge the attack and block together: this means that if you click when your enemy isn't attacking, you attack, and if they are attacking, you defend. It would make for some interesting sword fighting. Of course, this means people would just spam the left mouse button infinitely, so perhaps timing would be important and if you click too fast, you stumble or your attacks aren't as effective and your enemy can parry you easily and counter-attack.

 

You could also have some interesting dual-wielding if this were the case, as you could attack and block with each weapon. If you had a spell in one hand and a sword in the other, you could have a good sword fight (where you aren't defenseless) while your spell was charging up or something. But, since you're concentrating on two separate things at the same time, you are slightly less effective in battle and your opponent has the edge over you in melee.

 

The reason I think that the attack and defend buttons should be merged is this: in a battle, if I see a sword arcing towards my head, I'm not going to try slice my enemy's guts open. No, I'm going to defend my brain, because my brain is important. If you click the button when a sword is arcing towards your head, you will defend from that stroke, not unleash your own attack. By merging attack and defend together, you are freeing up a button for a logical reason.

 

Just some random ideas. I have no idea how well it would work in a game but I reckon it's worth a try (or refinement).

It would be very hard to pull this idea off successfully though, so I doubt it would be usable. :/

Edited April 28, 2013 by billyro