How are we supposed to deal with bad mod Authors?

[gyrofalcon]

And you go on with the hurt feelings, again. Instead of ignoring my maybe poor choice of words, you take them to heart.

The authors conduct is not very wise, for sure, but whom benefits for that kind of behavior? Nobody, imo.

But to use Nexus as a user, you browse mods according to number of DL, how well it is updated and how many endorsement the mod has. Then you can look deeper into how many kudos the user and how many other creations has been released.

You found (in your opinion) a bad apple. Well, ignore and move on. If the author refuse to cooperate and take feedback, the mods will not grow and become popular. And the person will loose interest of staying at the Nexus as a creator. Yes others can get the same "unfair" treatment, and the mods could remain rubbish, but then you learn how to actually use a free mod-site like Nexus. Creators don't get paid, and you pay nothing. There should your realistic level of expectations be.

[Neanka]

i have a better question `How are we supposed to deal with bad mod users?` which installed 100500 mods and report "mod doesn't work" with no information

Edited March 27, 2021 by Neanka

[remystemple7days]

was this the bunch of NPC mods?

[HadToRegister]

And you go on with the hurt feelings, again. Instead of ignoring my maybe poor choice of words, you take them to heart.

The authors conduct is not very wise, for sure, but whom benefits for that kind of behavior? Nobody, imo.

But to use Nexus as a user, you browse mods according to number of DL, how well it is updated and how many endorsement the mod has. Then you can look deeper into how many kudos the user and how many other creations has been released.

You found (in your opinion) a bad apple. Well, ignore and move on. If the author refuse to cooperate and take feedback, the mods will not grow and become popular. And the person will loose interest of staying at the Nexus as a creator. Yes others can get the same "unfair" treatment, and the mods could remain rubbish, but then you learn how to actually use a free mod-site like Nexus. Creators don't get paid, and you pay nothing. There should your realistic level of expectations be.

 

 

Good point, a modder that's going to block any and everybody from their mod page for not lauding them with praise, not averting their eyes when speaking to them, and not waxing lyrical with endless prose about their mod so they block them instead, is going to suffocate in the vacuum they create for themselves.

[SkrunchyCakes]

was this the bunch of NPC mods?

 

NPC/Raid, etc. yes.

 

 

 

Good point, a modder that's going to block any and everybody from their mod page for not lauding them with praise, not averting their eyes when speaking to them, and not waxing lyrical with endless prose about their mod so they block them instead, is going to suffocate in the vacuum they create for themselves.

 

 

LOL not everybody; just those who report bugs, etc. I just looked at the mod pages (it's multiple related mods from the same author) again and there are only 2 open bug reports between multiple mods, and each has numerous responses from multiple people (so it appears he may not be able to delete bug reports with multiple contributors; I'm not sure). But, I know from experience there are more bugs than this. Yet the mods are getting "some" upvotes from people who say "this looks awesome!" etc.

 

It seems many who have responded to this post live the conceptual world, not the practical. Yes, if there's issues with the mods and the author deletes bug reports and blocks people they simply do not like (and no other reason) they will lose some support, but they will also gain positive feedback from those who have low standards, have no issue with tweaking mods or ignoring bugs, etc. It's interesting how one individual in this thread said:

 

i have a better question `How are we supposed to deal with bad mod users?` which installed 100500 mods and report "mod doesn't work" with no information

 

So this person asks a question really unrelated to the OP but also brings the point that there's a number of idiot users out there - users that are lazy and do nothing to help authors (other than complain). It's safe to assume this means there are also users who will upvote and say something is awesome without even trying it, thus endorsing it for the concept or face value (and are then too lazy to report bugs). Or have such low standards even if something doesn't work well, they will still upvote.

 

As I've stated previously; the core issue is there is no way to report negative feedback regarding a mod or author, and the current system allows authors to hide and obfuscate problems with their mods, and only allow those who praise them. In other words, with the right "rotten" author and the current system design, they can facilitate feedback that makes their mod look awesome (taking advantage of the smaller percentage of players that endorse and provide support for something that's mediocre at best, and ignoring problems), which in the end is one simple thing: deceiving the community.

 

When a mod author deletes legit bug reports and blocks users who post legitimate feedback and information, they are creating an environment of deception and ultimately fraud. It's that simple.

 

Sure, the mod won't get thousands of upvotes - but it could (over time) get a few hundred as the users with low standards who think the mod is a cool idea (even though it might not work well at all) endorse it.

 

Some of you think the system is fine the way it is. I say it is not because I have personally witnessed an author unethically controlling their mod environment to mislead the community. I have a problem with that, and do believe this type of issue exposes a fundamental design flaw within the Nexus system.

Edited March 28, 2021 by SkrunchyCakes

[gyrofalcon]

I think you are reaching for a perfect world, and there is none to reach.

To enforce law and order, you need man-power, and lots of it, with a site this large. And/or plenty of bad AI to auto-correct users, words, posts, etc etc.

I think you are on to something; there are community members out there that maybe have lower standards then you, but why hold that against them? If they like the mod, and / or don't understands it could be better, well... That is their choice, in my opinion.

This is a diminishing problem, with so called "bad actors", that they go away in time, or gets better people-skills.

 

-snip-

When a mod author deletes legit bug reports and blocks users who post legitimate feedback and information, they are creating an environment of deception and ultimately fraud. It's that simple.

 

-snip-

This is your opinion, and I don't hold that against you. You believe that the bugs are real, but maybe not the author? So what? We can all agree that it was a better world, and everybody was 100% nice. But no, we are not.

And I was thinking; Fraud of what? Trust? Your time?

Yea, of course Nexus is flawed. It is a free site, run by a small staff, and some volunteers to help out the community (I'm not affiliated with Nexus, other being long term community member and supporter)

Over the years I've seen authors like this come and go, and for the most part of it; everybody ignored them, and we moved on to other mods or games. I'm sorry, but everybody has the free choice to be an idiot, and nobody should loose sleep over it.

As they say in Frozen: "Let it go"

[BigBizkit]

First of all I agree that the mod authors in the Valheim community generally display a very high standard when it comes to dealing with mod releases, bug reports, writing changelogs etc. as many of them tend to have experience, in some cases even professional experience, with writing and maintaining code.

 

Not everyone, however, does and we do not require mod authors to adhere to a (semi-)professional standard when dealing with e.g. bug reports. If they close issues without responding etc., then that's not great, but it's up to them. Chances are that mods with unaddressed bugs like that are not going to become as popular as the ones where the mod authors do a great job dealing with issues.

 

You, SkrunchyCakes, asked whether its a FFA for mod authors to do as they please. The answer is a clear "no" - mod authors, like all users, have to abide by our rules. It is true, however, that we cut mod authors a bit more slack - especially when they created mods that have been downloaded by many, many users - as they tend to have to deal with a huge amount of "bad faith" bug reports and generally users who can be less than polite! I think anyone who has published a somewhat popular mod can attest to the latter.

 

That being said, you also mentioned "The very act of banning is an aggressive act that warrants viable reason; it's basically censorship and restriction." - I strongly disagree with that. As far as our stance goes the access to mods is a privilege not a right. For every user who has been banned from a mod page without a good reason there are many more who have been banned for very good reasons. Naturally, the perception of "good reason" will be something the banned users and the banning authors will disagree over. This is what HadToRegister and others have pointed out: all too often do we run into this sort of thread by someone claiming to have been banned without reason, only to find that they've been behaving obnoxiously towards the author who banned them.

 

I'm not saying this was the case here, I'm saying this is the reason why things are the way they are at the moment and why they're unlikely to change.

 

I'm sorry if you feel the mod author banning you did so without a good reason. The recourse you have is to contact them and politely make your case as well as ask them to undo the ban. Whether you want to do that or whether you'd rather not use their mods and move on is up to you.

[SkrunchyCakes]

The definition of Irony: @gyrofalcon saying "let it go" while continuing to post in a thread where he's just repeating himself. LOL

 

First of all ...

 

So we finally have a statement from a Nexus mod. I want to point out you say you "strongly disagree" an act of banning is an aggressive act that warrants viable reason and it is censorship and restriction. This tells me the community (and mods like yourself) are completely disconnected with the logistical reality of what "banning" is and the impact it has.

 

Given I've come under scrutiny from other community members (including misrepresentations of my OP and whether my report is even truthful) for merely reporting this issue and the mods have taken a stance of "we don't care" (which is what BigBizkit is really saying; he wouldn't even investigate my report to see if this author was doing what I claimed with other users), the standards of this community are clear: Authors can ban anyone and delete any content under their mod with impunity and without reason. That's what the BigBizkit has confirmed above. The problem is this stance endorses a potential violation of the ToS. I'll explain in a moment.

 

First, I want to address the statement of: "all too often do we run into this sort of thread by someone claiming to have been banned without reason, only to find that they've been behaving obnoxiously towards the author who banned them."

 

There's a reason "innocent until proven guilty" exists in the real world. The above statement essentially says "we assume you're in the wrong unless you prove you are not because we deal with idiots all day long." Such an ideology and perspective as it relates to administering an online community isn't just absurd, it's dangerous and lazy. A mod should easily be able to look at a persons chat history and determine their behavior (and whether their claims have merit). Then again it's just easier to say why somebody won't investigate a claim instead of actually investigating the claims that are justified.

 

The ToS says: We do not tolerate 'trolling' or harassment of any kind. Do not belittle, discredit, or aggressively criticise another member or their content. If you do not like something or have nothing constructive to add, it's best to simply move along.

 

How is banning somebody and covering up legitimate bug reports not trolling or harassing community members, or the ultimate form of criticism? It is. But it appears the application of the above ToS standard is the traditional "rules for thee, but not for me". It should apply to everyone equally, including authors. Anyone who thinks banning somebody without reason (and/or to cover up legitimate detailed bug reports) isn't a violation of the above ToS statement needs their head checked.

 

The proper response from BigBizkit should have either been "We investigated your report and found it to be an isolated event and decided not to take any action" or "we investigated your report and have taken appropriate action." Unfortunately, it appears no real investigation into my claim was ever conducted. This is another problem as I filed a legitimate report, complete with details that supported a violation of the ToS as stated above.

 

It appears the Nexus mods felt responding as to why they wouldn't even investigate was easier than just looking into my report. This is another sign of an unhealthy community. Pair this with: The recourse you have is to contact them and politely make your case as well as ask them to undo the ban.

 

That's incorrect; the recourse I have is to report them and have the Nexus mods investigate as to whether or not they violated the ToS with their actions, and if they are doing the same thing with other community members (which I did). Note the above response is the ultimate "it's not my problem" response.

 

I also find it concerning how people in this discussion (including the Nexus mod) keep bringing up "feelings", trying to trivialize a viable logistical issue paired with the complete disconnection from the reality that blocking/banning/deleting is an aggressive act and, in the case of my report, potentially in violation of the ToS.

 

I've done what I can to report a legitimate issue tied to a logistical flaw with the Nexus Mod Community. One thing is certain; the Nexus Mods didn't conduct proper research into my claim, and people who have responded in this thread simply don't care and/or don't believe anything should be done even if my claims are accurate and true.

 

That's unfortunate, and is counterproductive to building and supporting a healthy community.

Edited March 29, 2021 by SkrunchyCakes

[BigBizkit]

If by "report" you mean you reported wrongdoing for staff to investigate via the corresponding report button on the mod page or user profile, then the reason it hasn't been looked at is because there are no reports from you for at least the last several days. If you did raise a report early last week or longer ago referring to this please let me know and I'd be happy to have a look - it does sound, however, as if you're referring to the bug reports on some mods instead.

 

If you mean your bug reports then I am afraid you're not making it very easy as you've yet to clearly specify where you actually left those reports.

 

I took a wild guess and found two bug reports you raised on "RRR Better Raids". In both cases the author replied to you giving a suggestion on what to do and then closed the issue - I assume you wanted to add more to the report and continue the discussion and they didn't. (On the Vortex issue I can advise and say that the conflict is because all of the RRR mods include a "LICENSE" file that conflicts - this is a harmless conflict though and you can just choose to resolve the conflict in any way you want (select before/after however you please essentially)).

 

I don't think this interaction marks the author as a bad actor who needs to be reprimanded or otherwise sanctioned though.

 

That "we don't care" is untrue should be evident from my response here and to your email. If that is how you choose to interpret my response, then I'm afraid there isn't much I can add that hasn't already been covered by myself or other posters in this thread. I'm therefore closing this but feel free to raise a report if/when you feel like someone is violating our ToS.

 

If you have further thoughts on the topic and would like to continue the discussion please refer to the feedback forum.

 

edit: My bad, you did raise a report (regarding this exact bug report I referred to) on 25th May, however, it was actioned i.e. reviewed by a moderator within 40 minutes who - like me - did not find wrongdoing warranting moderation action.