Dawnguard - annoyed at backstory

[ZenonSeth]

Ok, I made a topic about this in General, and it was deleted - I'm assuming (giving the mods the benefit of the doubt) due to spoilers. I started playing Dawnguard last week, just getting through the major story.

 

My problem is with whoever the writers are for Dawnguard. They've quite casually included the fact that the trueblood vampires come from... Molag Bal raping women.

This is included as an actual backstory for Serana, though its only really implied, there's a lot of clues as to what her implications are.

Yeah, spoiler.

 

Also, WTF??

 

Things that annoy me on a personal level:

- This has been annoying me since I first encountered a daedric prince quest, but this was incredibly upsetting here. We can't do anything what so ever to even TRY to oppose the daedric princes (unless its a major plot point as in Oblivion). I feel like the game is laughing at me at how helpless I am, and in this case at how helpless I am about Bal raping women. I hope someone can see why this is upsetting me.

- What do I want? A way to go and shove my dagger in his face. Yes, these princes are supposed to be immortals, and incredibly powerful. Yet in universe, there are a lot of ways mortals can influence them, and we've fought lesser daedra with regular weapons. It annoys me that the writers have chosen to just omit this possibility.

 

Things that bug me on a more story-related level:

- The whole raping thing is not treated lightly by any means, but it really just seems to serve no other purpose than to give a dramatic backstory. It's a cheap cheap copout a lot of writers use when writing traumatic experiences for female characters, and they don't address any issues with it, other than "it's made her past more angsty". In short, f*#@ that. It's lazy writing that is inconsiderate of the audience (at least to a part of it).

 

Some may dismiss this, but imagine if your player character was forced to go through this (because no one can oppose the daedric princes) at the start of the game. Even if it wasn't shown, but merely implied - how would that make you feel? Is this really any worse than having it applied to a rather well developed character? (for a decent example of this situation being done better, see Dragon Age 1's city elf origin, where revenge, punishment whatever you want to call it, is an option)

 

This is more of a rant, but I do want to know what people think, and how they feel about this. I cannot be the only one who finds this annoying...

 

p.s.: If you're just going to tell me "chill bro, its only fiction" then consider why you play games at all, if not to get immersed, to some degree, in the game's world.

Hopefully this, admittedly, better worded than before post doesn't get deleted.

 

[Halendia]

I think the writers failed basically the entire game? Just me? No?

[StayFrosty05]

Getting rather personal here, as an older woman who has.... seen what life can dish out in my younger years, I guess you would then be very surprised to hear I in fact do not have an issue withe her back story....but then again I also am a great advocate of realism in my games. I am not looking for Rainbows and Ponies, the bad guy isn't always caught or punished either. I don't like forced cr*ppy events forced on me, I want the ability to fight back and survive....Mass Effect anyone.... :dry: ....but I do like a realistic story.

 

Take a look at Greek and Roman Mythology and their Pantheons of Gods. They were extremely unpleasant entities who certainly had no issues with being serial rapists and murderers, it's far from nice, but such behavior among mankind is well known and so takes place in our stories about other entities too....usually in a condensed form and so appears much more prevalent.

 

Yes, it is nasty and disgusting, but so is Molag Bal, his always been depicted as a sick and depraved entity in TES Lore and so such behavior is fitting for him and as a Daedric Prince, he gets away with it simple as that. Personally I feel the event and his behavior fits well and makes perfect sense. I may sound cold and hard about and if that upsets you, I apologize, but it's a refection of real life and bad things happen....I accept that.

 

And yes, in reference to my above comment about events forced on me, many of the Daedric Quests are literally shoved down our throats and made quite difficult to avoid...THAT annoys the heck out of me.... :dry:

Edited May 5, 2013 by StayFrosty05

[SandMan131313]

Things that bug me on a more story-related level:

- The whole raping thing is not treated lightly by any means, but it really just seems to serve no other purpose than to give a dramatic backstory. It's a cheap cheap copout a lot of writers use when writing traumatic experiences for female characters, and they don't address any issues with it, other than "it's made her past more angsty". In short, f*** that. It's lazy writing that is inconsiderate of the audience (at least to a part of it).

 

I don't see how this is "cheap" writing. Many back stories have things of this nature, whether it be murdered parents, abuse, murdered loved ones, growing up poor or with a single parent. There are many more examples of bad things that happen to real people that are used in a characters back story. It doesn't make it cheap because it's rape and you have a problem with it.

 

Also I don't ever remember Serana saying anything about being raped. She implies something embarrassing that she'd rather not talk about which could be a number of things, seeing as Daedric princes have their servants do many things for them (murdering someone with a rusty mace or eating the dead).

 

Also her wiki entry doesn't mention anything of rape either

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Serana

 

I understand it's a touchy topic for many people, but I don't see what's wrong with this. You may not like it, which is completely fine, but that doesn't make it off limits for writers. Like you said it is inconsiderate of a certain part of the audience though.

Edited May 6, 2013 by SandMan131313

[breakwind]

I can't understand the problem with this, mankind's own history is full of religous atrocities, why should a fictitional world loosely based on a similar history be any different? If you think the game is laughing at you because it is making you feel uncomfortable, try seeing what is happening in the real world outside your door....at least you can turn the game off

[TheVampireDante]

Also I don't ever remember Serana saying anything about being raped. She implies something embarrassing that she'd rather not talk about which could be a number of things, seeing as Daedric princes have their servants do many things for them (murdering someone with a rusty mace or eating the dead).

 

 

 

It's how the "ritual" was first instigated:

 

 

The first Daughter of Coldharbour can be roughly dated back to at least the early First Era. Lamae Beolfag was a Nedic virgin who was raped by Molag Bal. It is recorded that after the ordeal, Molag Bal shed a droplet of blood on her brow and left her to die.

 

Since Lamae, a tradition developed among Molag Bal worshipping cults which dictated that females be offered to him on the 20th of Evening Star, his summoning day. Few survive the ordeal and those who do emerge as pure-blooded vampires. Being selected as an offering was considered to be an honor that is not rejected lightly.

 

Whether it's still the same experience, or something else has evolved as the standard ritual since then I don't know, but I'd take a guess at it being the same ordeal.

 

[SandMan131313]

That's my bad. I never read into that much and assumed it was something bad, rape being a possibility but left it at that.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I actually think that it is because our real lives are filled with so much unpunished depravity that it makes the original poster annoyed that it is in the game too.

 

I mean, I know it’s realistic but damn, do we have to be depressed in a game too? Lol I mean we definitely play games, and watch shows, and movies partially due to wanting immersion but I would also say that sometimes we watch some of those things and play games with happier endings as a means to have a brief escape from the negativity in the world. Like maybe there is a part of us that enjoys playing games because we want control over everything as a brief break from the powerlessness we often feel especially in the face of certain adversities.

 

So while that particular instance didn’t upset me (I mean after all, regardless as to why, they did choose that path), as I don’t like vampires anyway and would have probably attempted to kill her if the game let me, I can understand your annoyance (or at least I think I do) and have felt it at other times.

 

I hate that I can’t oppose the daedric princes, I hate that I can’t systematically do quests that will eliminate the Thieves Guild and or at the very least take power away from Maven. I hate that if I side with the Empire or the Stormcloaks that I can’t remove the corrupt officials/jarls that are also on the side I have chosen (or at least extort them). I hate when I am maxed out with intimidate (100 Speech and appropriate perks selected) and I STILL can’t intimidate someone. WTF have the option there if it is impossible to succeed with it?

 

On the daedric prince thing, I especially remember when my boy Jarl Balgruuf was all like, “Hey Dosv (I named that particular dude that)! My Thane! My homie!”

 

And I was all like, “Big Rough! (I call him that cause we cool like that) WHUSSSSUUUUUUUUP!”

 

Then he was like, “WHUSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!”

 

Then I said (The Whusup thing happened like 12 more times back and forth)

 

So finally, he’s like, “Dos, my son is being a bit of an a-hole lately. His mom saw my Skybook status, who you suspiciously enough never see so you can assume I am getting some dunmer tail from my housecarl, but his mom saw my status about it on Skybook and text me that it is probably puberty or some dumb sh(ice)t like that. Look, I saw you adopted like 12 kids.”

 

“True dat, B (I call him that too sometimes)”

 

“So given we haven’t arrested you for child neglect-”

 

“Mostly cause I’m the thane and I’ll b(iscuit)tch slap them guards.”

 

“You say something?”

 

“No B, you’re good.”

 

“Yeah, well given you’re not in jail, you must know what you’re doing. Can you talk some sense into that little snot because I gotta sit on my pimp throne all day like a Boss.”

 

“I got you man.”

 

So I walk up to the kid and he’s like, “You’re here to kiss my father’s butt. Great.”

 

And almost slapped him right then and there, but no, I talk to him. I figure the problem is woman related because what problem isn’t? “Look kid, when two people love each other, or when they get certain urges, they have a special hug that they-“

 

“I have new friend, and I can’t help them but maybe you can.”

 

“Uh, kid, I know these are barbaric times we’re in, but I don’t touch them unless their old enough to-“

 

“No, not that kind of friend. Just follow me.”

 

Needless to say the kid is helping a daedric prince in the kitchen pantry right next to the Doritos. Not good. This is definitely some information that would be important to share with Big Rough. Right?

 

Nope. I can’t even tell the guy that his son is worshipping a demon. I can ask him about the dumb@$$ Greybeards for the 15^th time or what it means to be a Thane when I know it doesn’t mean anything already, but I can’t tell him that his son is acting weird because there is a demon that is trying to use him every time he goes to grab a pint of mead. (Hey, those times mead was a kids drink (prolly not but still))

 

So yeah, I’ve been annoyed myself friends. I have been there.

[StayFrosty05]

I actually think that it is because our real lives are filled with so much unpunished depravity that it makes the original poster annoyed that it is in the game too.

 

I mean, I know it’s realistic but damn, do we have to be depressed in a game too? Lol I mean we definitely play games, and watch shows, and movies partially due to wanting immersion but I would also say that sometimes we watch some of those things and play games with happier endings as a means to have a brief escape from the negativity in the world. Like maybe there is a part of us that enjoys playing games because we want control over everything as a brief break from the powerlessness we often feel especially in the face of certain adversities.

 

So while that particular instance didn’t upset me (I mean after all, regardless as to why, they did choose that path), as I don’t like vampires anyway and would have probably attempted to kill her if the game let me, I can understand your annoyance (or at least I think I do) and have felt it at other times.

 

I hate that I can’t oppose the daedric princes, I hate that I can’t systematically do quests that will eliminate the Thieves Guild and or at the very least take power away from Maven. I hate that if I side with the Empire or the Stormcloaks that I can’t remove the corrupt officials/jarls that are also on the side I have chosen (or at least extort them). I hate when I am maxed out with intimidate (100 Speech and appropriate perks selected) and I STILL can’t intimidate someone. WTF have the option there if it is impossible to succeed with it?

 

 

 

 

I concede....you have a point TONS....gaming is an escape from the real world and it's constants, I can see now why it could upset some players. I guess I just get so caught up in looking through my own eyes, I sometimes forget other people would see the same situation quite differently.

 

I hear you about the lack of ability to oppose or eliminate....it bugs the heck out of me too. The Speech thing.... :pinch: ....had one instance where my Dovah had maxed Speech and the Intimidate perk filled in, was under the blessing of Dibella at the time and was wearing a Dibellan Amulet but could not intimidate a common Thief stopping him on the road.... :blink: ....I mean what the hell!?.... :blink: ...Why is the option even there if it can't be used?.... :dry:

[MightyZ0G]

we read books and watch films for the same reason we play games and they all have something horrible happen, either at the start of the story or in flashback.

even Bambi's mother gets killed

 

saying that vampires are virgins who were raped by a Daedric Prince isn't cheap. saying "Being selected as an offering was considered to be an honor that is not rejected lightly." doesn't mean it is a good thing or that everyone selected considered it that way.

 

on some levels it makes you feel pity towards the vampires and stops them from simply being moving targets.

Edited May 7, 2013 by mighty zog