Ivan913 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I believe the reason your forced to spend with Microsoft points is so that no sales tax can be put on the purchases. That's fairly reasonable. But its not reasonable to only be able to buy in 500, 1000 increments if you only want 800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfDeadguy Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 They do that for the same reason hot dogs are sold in multiples of 7 while the buns come in multiples of 8. If you have a few left over but not enough to get the next thing you want, they figure you'll buy more instead of wasting the points. Otherwise, they'd just have an electronic payment system that would let you buy exactly the amount you need (or, better yet, just slap normal prices on all the DLC and charge it directly). You have to spend for sales tax anyway when you buy the MS points. And yes, it is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDP4711 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I hate Windows LIVE perhaps more than anything else in the gaming world. I'm sure it's just fine and dandy for console users, but PC gamers really shouldn't have to put up with it's intrusive nature. I'm not getting Anchorage because of it. It Bethesda wants to release it in the store or as a normal download, great, I'll buy it. But not through Windows LIVE. I agreed so much that I bought F3 on the 360, instead of the PC (despite my deep love of mods). I agreed as a guy who's been burned by DRM/Log-In type of games before. I agreed... till I actually played a game with it installed. Dawn of War II Beta on Steam. I was excited, DL'ed it. Then realized I had to log-into GFW to play. I turned off my PC and fumed. I was pissed, but I decided to keep a monitoring system up while I played the demo later. It didn't trigger any warning signs (no sniffing, etc.) and it didn't slow down my games performance. To double the test, I alt tabbed out, ran a speedtest off speedtest.net, DL'ed a back-up off of my private server and then went t the ES Forums to post, not slowdown of performance. I hadn't even realized my 360 LIVE account was in fact my GFW Live account as well. Odd. My fears weren't warranted about it. Only thing I was right about was the shitastic ploy of Microsoft points, but even that is useful for folks that have both a 360 and a PC. I don't LIKE Games For Windows at all. I don't think we should have to install something to play a game. Cash and a Net connection should work. However, it doesn't hurt anything on my system. I haven't had problems yet. So now, I don't care. I'm pretty sure that most people that are fuming about this type of stuff are like me, afraid of the big companies trying to pull an EAGames and install some form of Malware onto our systems. That's just not the case with this Windows Live thing. Or maybe they don't even know what it really is and are hopping on the bandwagon of hate for no reason except to hate Microsoft. Skotte's right about The Schwartz. Of course, Dark Helmet had the biggest Schwartz of all though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfDeadguy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I do not like that you have to be logged in and online to access certain content for games that you have installed on your computer. That's been a pet peeve of mine for a long, long time- I'll put up with it if, and only if, the game is so entertaining or otherwise amazingly awesome that it's worth the hassle-factor. Here's what bothers me about requiring GFWL to access the DLC for Fo3: the base game doesn't require it. It's an option, but you can still install and lay the game just fine without ever looking at GFWL. Given that option, I am never going to choose to use the online service- despite the fact that, as an X360 owner, I already have a GFWL account. If any of the games I own through Steam offered an option to "disconnect" the game from the service, I'd immediately apply it to every singleplayer-only game in my inventory, even though there is an "offline mode" option- and I like Steam. I like the constant stream of updates and patches to my online games, I like the at-your-fingertips online game store component, I like the built-in social networking and what-have-you. What I don't like is being dependent on somebody else's server for access to content which I should be able to freely pluck around with at any time of my choosing, even if the server I got it from has gone up in a bloody mushroom cloud. I would prefer to be able to download my singleplayer games/content for said games and then disconnect them from the service entirely until I wanted something else from it. The key word here is "service"- something which serves a purpose when called upon to do so. I don't like having to use the "service" for "management." Honestly, if MS did away with their points system and allowed direct transactions, or if something truly irresistible released exclusively for GFWL, I would probably cave in and use the account. Refusing it on the grounds that it is intrusive or burdensome would be hypocritical; I already use Steam, and have been using it for years. I've "used" GFWL insofar as I've accessed my Live account with my X360; I've even bought some DLC (Bring Down the Sky for Mass Effect, among other things). It took Live several days to acknowledge that I had valid points and allow me to use them, but that's a separate issue- Steam has done similarly idiotic things to me in the past. I didn't like the way the system worked; I won't use it in a setting where I don't have to in order to get what I want. I don't want anything available through GFWL enough to use it yet- end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellao Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I find windows live kind of stupid I dont see how its bad. other than its a pain int he ass just to get operation anchorage. however. what I would like to know is what do I do with my achievement points? (not microsoft points) (points you get for completeing quests etc) I don't hate LIVE it's just... useless. For me anyways. I do find it dumb that I can't buy an American product from an American company with American currency (as an American) I think achievement points are for seeing who has the biggest Swartz. yeah totally pointless... I wouldnt mind buying anchorage. I mean I'd love it sounds like a cool mod. but...why cant I just have the CD? is bethsoft really that worried on pirateing that they come up with a crazy system? why dont they just make their disks harder to crack or whatever? I mean I assume thats why they are doing this nonsense thing with the download from live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotte Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I find windows live kind of stupid I dont see how its bad. other than its a pain int he ass just to get operation anchorage. however. what I would like to know is what do I do with my achievement points? (not microsoft points) (points you get for completeing quests etc) I don't hate LIVE it's just... useless. For me anyways. I do find it dumb that I can't buy an American product from an American company with American currency (as an American) I think achievement points are for seeing who has the biggest Swartz. yeah totally pointless... I wouldnt mind buying anchorage. I mean I'd love it sounds like a cool mod. but...why cant I just have the CD? is bethsoft really that worried on pirateing that they come up with a crazy system? why dont they just make their disks harder to crack or whatever? I mean I assume thats why they are doing this nonsense thing with the download from live. the only piracy LIVE would deal with would be pre-first day piracy. LIVE is imho a consolized ditribution system (don't deal with an installer,we'll do that for you) & I have a feeling that they went this way because of the situation alot of players had with the DRMed oblivion DLC ("I payed for it,got the file but I can't install it" problem) and the KoTN disc as far as I tell is not protected at all, I don't condone piracy, I just like to know what my programs are up to. And yes I to would like to buy the DLC -crosses fingers for FO3 DLC compilation disc- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellao Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 the only piracy LIVE would deal with would be pre-first day piracy. LIVE is imho a consolized ditribution system (don't deal with an installer,we'll do that for you) & I have a feeling that they went this way because of the situation alot of players had with the DRMed oblivion DLC ("I payed for it,got the file but I can't install it" problem) Why would they just want the consolized distribution system? I mean Im sure they had to cut an extra deal with microsoft. not to mention as much as it sounds like it helps the user it can actually be much harder. Hell i have asked this question for a long time now (What is a microsoft point?) and I still have not gotten a straight answer. I dont want to go out and buy microsoft points...I dont even know what they are and hell it seems like more of a hassle to me. the disk would be so much easier. Also if a disk gets damaged the proper course of action is to take it to the store you bought it from tell them its broke and they should give you a new one. if it doesent work you should call Bethseda's support line and complain. simple as that. I mean this stupid file is protected this way. I mean if you think about it if it were a disk it would be easier to access. so I defintley think its pirateing and its not just cause they want a consolized distribution to make life easier for the customer cause in my point of view they just made it harder and more irritateing to buy their product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDP4711 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I don't mind being connected to the net in order to play games. And honestly, in order to get companies like Secu-ROM to go under, I'd love to see an all STEAM style of games distribution to happen in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfDeadguy Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 That won't do the trick; several of the games available over Steam still have SecuROM attached. The only thing that is going to kill SecuROM is massed negative feedback from the consumers like was done when Spore released- blogging, reviews, petitions, and boycotting (after which some of the restrictions were loosened, though not lifted completely). Companies listen to money; if the money walks away then the company's MO changes. If gamers make SecuROM and the like unprofitable by virtue of not buying anything with such Big Brotherware attached, then we're likely to see fewer restrictions in subsequent releases. If the consumers piss and moan but ultimately roll over, then the DRM just gets sneakier and more insidious the next time around. The funny thing is that cracked/pirated releases are usually leaked by a company employee, rendering all the band-aids useless because the profit hemorrhage is internal. DRM fails as hard and as fast as it does for the same reason nanny-state legislation doesn't work. That's a different discussion, though- it has little to do with digital distribution. Digital distribution is a wonderful idea that should have been capitalized on at least a decade before it really took off... hence why Steam is the only DD retail operation that is currently anywhere near maturity. GFWL/XBL is years behind the power curve, and MS points are going to continue hurting it in PC sales as long as other services exist that allow direct transactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonkr Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Hey come join my club :D I hate those A******s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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