jaime74

Hi all, when checking my mod with TES4Edit using the "check for errors" function, I get twoone error messages which I can't understand. I'd be glad if someone could help me. Both scripts work absolutely fine inside the game, by the way. [EDIT] The first error is solved: I just forgot to attach a script to the scripted magic effect of the potion, that was all. Now fixed. Here's the second one: SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR SCRO - Global Reference -> Found a ENCH reference, expected: ACHR,ACRE,ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,BSGN,CELL,CLAS,CLOT,CONT,CREA,CSTY,DIAL,DOOR,EFSH,FACT,FLOR,FURN,GLOB,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,LVLI,MGEF,MISC,NPC_,NULL,PACK,PLYR,QUST,RACE,REFR,SCPT,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,SPEL,STAT,WEAP,WRLD,WTHR Above errors were found in :References Above errors were found in :BoTUpdateLLBladeOfTheHaunted [sCPT:02010FAC] Above errors were found in :GRUP Top "SCPT" This comes from a script where I use a ref variable ponting to the EditorID of a custom made enchantment. This reference is used 11 times throughout the script, and that's obviously why the above error is repeated 11 times. The relevant script parts look roughly like this: ref enchRef [...] begin function(...) [...] set enchRef to BoTEnchBladeOfTheHaunted01 [...] set enchRef to BoTEnchBladeOfTheHaunted02 [...] playerRef.setEnchantment enchRef bladeRef [...] end The enchantment refs (BoTEnchBladeOfTheHauntedxx) exist and are valid, as well as the bladeRef. Any ideas?

Thanks everybody for these replies! :) Sounds that migrating from XP to Win 7 is not a big thing after all. More things that I was thinking of yesterday: - Are there any problems with installing and running OBSE plugins (with dlls and everything)? Now I suppose that as long as they're installed outside the UAC controlled folders, there shouldn't be any issues? - What about tools like Wrye Bash, OBMM and TES CS? Do they work as expected on Win7/64bit, or is there anything important to know? P.S.: Think it would make sense if I updated my initial post above regularly to include all the new information. I'll do this soon...

Hi everybody, after a long time of playing TES IV on Win XP 32-bit, I am planning to upgrade to Win 7 (64 bit). But I have found so many scattered hints across the forums about various things you should know about Win 7 and Oblivion that I am a bit confused. So my question is: Does anybody know a good overview/summary of things to consider before upgrading? I am not talking about general questions of upgrading from XP to Win7. I am also aware of the general system requirements for Win 7 (my PC has a Quad Core CPU with 64 bit capability, 6 GB of RAM (theoretically), a quite new motherboard and a decent GPU (NV GTX285)). So I guess upgrading my OS won't be a problem. I am rather interested in the specific game related aspects. This includes, e.g.: - playing the game itself - usage of essential gaming and modding tools like TES CS, OBMM, Wrye Bash, BOSS etc. Here's what I already (believe to) have learned, though I don't know any details: - Win 7 for TES IV is not officially supported by Bethsoft, though most people don't consider this a problem (game runs better on Win 7 actually) - There are some security restrictions in Win 7, such as for the c:\Programs folder. This is why people usually install the game and/or modding tools in another place (but which tools are affected? Where to install?) - TES IV doesn't support RAM memory space higher than 2 GB by default. Full benefit of 4+ GB RAM on a 64-bit system can only be harvested by applying special tweaks/flags to the game files (which tweaks, where/how to apply)? - Contrary to XP, Win 7 supports DirectX 10. But does Oblivion benefit from that? - Anything else...? I'd be very very happy about helpful information. I suppose that other people would also profit from having such information bundled in one place. I will also try to contribute here whatever I learn. Thanks! jaime74

Well, I feel happy!! What a reply... I guess this should go out as a beginners' quickstart guide! Thanks a lot! :thumbsup: In the meantime, I could already figure out some of the basics myself (though I wasn't fast enough to post it): After importing nearly 30 mods into BAIN, experimenting a lot with extracting, repackaging, over- and underriding etc., I really feel like having jumped out of the stone age indeed! It's especially the full-grown handling of texture/meshes overriding that got me. Had I known of this fantastic benefit earlier, then I would have switched to BAIN months ago. Don't know how much time I have spent trying to figure out in vain why my beautiful CSR silver longsword had been reset to its ugly vanilla look for the 100th time after installing some other damn mod update... or how much thoughts I've lost about the question: Are my QTP3 textures still really present, or have I accidentally overwritten them with thousands of low-quality files from other mods without knowing?? Now I know that BAIN has the perfect answer for this problem, and I was completely astonished, how easy it is to use once you've understood the basic mechanism. This should be labelled as "Mod Installing Reborn"! ;) In the meantime, I think that I have also understood something about the BCFs. I now use them in the following situation, hoping that this is as intended (although this doesn't matter, because it is a great benefit that way, no matter how it is meant to be used): 1. I have some mod file (let's say, it is an omod file), which obviously doesn't seem to be BAIN-readable (e.g. due to unorthodox directory structure) 2. I convert this omod to an archive in OBMM 3. I copy the archive into BAIN's installation folder 4. I use BAIN to unpack it into a project (it took me several hours to understand from the cryptic Wrye Bash documentation that exactly this was meant by "create a new project") 5. I rearrange the project files by adjusting everything directly in the file system (copying around, renaming, removing unnecessary files etc.) 6. I go back to BAIN and pack the project into an archive again 7. Now (in BAIN) I use the "Conversion >> Create" command on the original archive, then selecting the new archive as the target, thus creating a BCF. 8. To verify my freshly created BCF, I apply it once to the originalarchive to recreate another instance of the newone from it. 9. Now I compare both versions of the new archive. If they're identical, I can delete one of them, and the remaining will be the one to install via BAIN, finally. 10. Now whenever the original mod archive should be updated by the author, I just need to copy it into BAIN's installation dir and reapply the BCF. Thus I have automated my migration process. When I tried this out for the first time, I was overwhelmed when I saw that the BCF creation automatically recognized any changes that I had applied to the project manually (even file removals)! Couldn't believe it! The seems like master-level alteration magic to me! :wink: Thanks for the "deeper" links as well, and also for mentioning Better Cities, All Natural and AWLS: As I am using all three of them, I now know which are the next three mods to migrate from OBMM to BAIN! :woot: :woot: :woot:

Hi, After months of working with Oblivion Mod Manager (OBMM), I am now trying to start migrating my omods to BAIN slowly. After reading through the Wrye Bash readmes, I still have some problems with basic understanding. I'll post them here (and add more later, perhaps), because I think that this might be interesting for other BAIM newbies as well: Here they are (to be continued): - How exactly do I need to "rearrange" an existing mod (either an omod, or a "plain" directory tree) into a BAIN-compatible project or archive? Because I found out that just copying my omod-ready archives into the BAIN Installer folder seems to do it: They are always recognized by BAIN pretty well! So is there anything else I have to do? - When and for what exactly do I need to create a Bain Conversion File (BCF)? I suppose that this is needed only for specific situations, and not for just installing my omods via BAIN. But for what? Any help will be highly appreciated! I believe that the acceptance of BAIN will rise significantly if such basics are better understandable for greenhorns like me! ;) Thanks in advance, jaime74

Does anyone know a real solution for this problem? Because just removing any OBSE version checking code from any omod that tries to check this is probably not a good solution. :( It seems to me that there's some issue between Steam and OBMM in that point. Or is there any way, at least, in OBMM script code to check whether the user is running a Steam version? Any help appreciated!

I have to join in with the rest: Great idea! I found several very interesting links only at the first glance that seem to help me a lot!

DoH! I should have caught that but wasn't paying attention. Sorry. Hi all! Thanks for the help! And yes, LHammond: I had already tried to compensate by clicking the "thumbs up", but wasn't allowed to do so. Should have metnioned that. Nevertheless, I have already received word from the "victim". Apparently the whole thing is not too serious, after all. I was glad, btw, to detect that this reputation thing seems to relate to sinlge posts only, not to the complete user account! :sweat:

Dear all, Just some minutes ago, I accidentally gave another forum user's post a "bad reputation" (see here: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33089). I clicked the wrong icon (thumbs down instead of thumbs up), and thus the user's reputation (or is the reputation referrring to the post only?) immediately dropped by 100! After realizing what I had done, I was quite irritated by the fact that such a destructive action is not double-checked by a confirmation dialogue! I sent an apology to the user at once, but still I'd like to make this undone! What can I do? Is there a way to revert it? Or will reputation automatically be reverted after a certain time period? Thanks alot!!!!! (and shame on me :wallbash: )

Hi all, I am looking for an easy way to dump console output to a text file. I already know that there is ConScribe, which works excellently for me. But in order to help users to solve problems with my mod, I need them to capture console logging output. Telling them to setup ConScribe is often too complicated, and its sophisticated features are not needed for this situation anyway. So I am hoping that there might an easier way, such as a simple console command or whatever. I found something about the "scof" command, but this seems to exist only in Fallout, not in TES IV. Is there anything else I've missed? Thanks alot!! :)

Hi everybody, are there any news to this thread? In fact, I am trying to do exactly the same, though vice versa: I've got a 1-handed weapon NIF and want to create a copy of it that is suited for 2-handed wielding? From what I know so far, this is not done by just changing the weapon type from 1-handed to 2-handed in CS, because this will make the weapon appear invisible in the game. But what do I have to do then? Do I have to work with NIFSkope, or even with Blender? I don't want to change anything other than the wielding-type (except for properties like scale, reach and speed, but these can easily be edited inside CS). The only problem seems to be the mesh/NIF. I found the following description in the TES CS Wiki, but I don't know whether this is the right approach: Taken from: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/3ds_Max/NifSkope:_Custom_Weapons

It's good to hear that, because I that is exactly what I was already supposing, though it really confuses me. I have never read anything like that in any documentation, tutorial etc. Now I have already started to modify my script to do exactly what you are proposing (i.e. to silently reapply attributes via script on getGameLoaded/getGameRestarted). So thanks for your reply!!

Hi everybody, I am completely confused after spending hours analyzing the following problem: I am trying to change weapon attributes at runtime using the following OBSE commands setAttackDamage setObjectHealth setWeaponReach setWeaponSpeed setObjectCharge setEquippedCurrentCharge This seems to work fine, because I can immediately see all the changes applied to the weapon. When I save after applying the changes and reload the savegame, the changes are still present. That's fine. But... whenever I quit Oblivion completely, restart, and then reload the savegame, all changes are lost! The weapon always snaps back to the default values from its base form. Does anybody know why that happens? Here's what I tried to find the answer: At first, I placed the weapon directly inside a cell in CS, i.e. I created a non-dynamic reference with a unique EditorID ("MyWeapon"). In my script, I then used to to change values, like that: setAttackDamage 50 WeaponEditorID Then I tried to do it dynamically by adding the weapon to the player ingame with code like ref weaponRef ... player.addItem MyWeaponFormID 1 player.equipItem MyWeaponFormID weaponRef = player.GetEquippedObject 16 setAttackDamage 50 weaponRef At last, in order to see if there is some problem with my scripts, I tried to bypass them by directly selecting the weapon in the console and then using the simple console command: setAttackDamage 50 But the effect is always the same, no matter which method I choose: - All the changing of attributes works absolutely perfect! - Reloading a savegame without quitting the game works perfect! - However, quitting the game and then restarting/reloading does NOT work! Please help... this nasty problem completely overthrows my mod, because without being able to save the changes, it's absolutely useless :( Thanks for any hints!!!

Thanks, maybe I missed that. I'll have a look at it tonight!

Hi knight, that's good to hear! As you know, I have joined this thread for the same reasons (you actually brought me here), and I have found a lot of answers, as well. The basic lack of documentation still remains, however. By this, I mean the missing tutorials that really explain how Wrye Bash works, from a human-readable point of view. Such a tutorial (or whatever we like to call it) would probably have to leave out lots of details and focus on a "Wrye-Bash-for-beginners" level (something like a view from 3000 miles above), and then continue to dig down into more detailed topics. Meanwhile, I am sure that such a tutorial won't exist unless we create it ourselves! The best way to make a complex thing understandable is to let a beginner write down (for other beginners) what he has learned. I'd probably have the ambition to do it, but (apart from the missing time) my knowledge is far too little right now to find a start. But I'll think about it. Maybe I'll find the time to summarize my understanding and then post it here for review? Cheers

Well, here I'm back again! I hope you could get a good amount of sleep after spending your very last breath in answering my questions yesterday! :) First of all: In the meantime I was able to restore my mod by falling back to a backup copy. My savegames work again. That isn't an elegant way, of course, and it doesn't solve the matter at all. But the main thing is that I can lean back and take a deep breath. Now for your explanations: Well, I think this is one of the most basic reasons for mod conflicts, of course. But it bears very interesting point that I did never think of! If my understanding is correct, the game engine's behaviour to "drop" and reinitialize a mod whenever it has been changed is not simply a bug or a weakness, but actually intention, in order to avoid conflicts like the one you are describing! From this new point of view, it seems quite logical to me! But then I am wondering how the engine detects mod updates? Is it just the name and timestamp of the file? I guess not! I suppose it's rather some hidden information (like timestamps or incremental IDs in the file header or whatever... I can only guess). But it might help alot to know more about that. Apart from that, if this behaviour is systematic, why does the game handle such situations in such a sporadic, unpredictable way (sometimes mod changes will kill the savegame, sometimes they won't)? I still dare to hope that it could be possible to distinguish "hard changes", that definitely will break a savegame, from "soft changes", that we can consider as "savegame-compatible". But maybe this is too optimistic? I'll start a try to update my "possible reasons" list from above, based on what I have learned (maybe it's still partially rubbish, but why not give it a chance?)... What could be "hard changes" to a mod that "kill" savegames? - Mixing up of old and new script variables, i.e. mixing the position in the scripts where they are declared - Changing the name of the esp file - Changing the name of quests - Changing the name of the scripts - Redefining/modifying quest stages - Changing the load order position of the esp(?) --> I think we can consider this as a "safe change", don't we? - Using a Bashed Patch created with Wrye Bash that might interfere with my esp if it hasn't been rebuilt properly the mod update --> I am not sure about that. I guess I should be more specific here! - Adding new masters to the esp (yes, I ran into that yesterday!) - Deleting persistent references - Deleting cells - anything else?

Dear ranokoa, what a reply! :thumbsup: That's faaar more than I had expected! :yes: I will now read through it thoroughly after having caught my train and then come back with any (hopefully) helpful new ideas and questions! But I can see from a quick walkthrough that you have already given me a lot of good answers! Sleep well, get well and take care of your head!

Dear all, to set it straight: What can be possible reasons for savegames going havoc after a mod (which this saved game is based on) has been modified or updated? I guess that this a well known and old question among modders, though I haven't found much information about it in the forums, apart from the general "create-a-clean-save" approach (see this post, for example). Why is this so critical? Just an example: I have created a quest mod, and after changing several things inside it, my savegames based on older versions of the mod may (or may not) produce weird effects. It's often unpredictable, or at least very hard to track down what causes the corruption in every specific case. As long as I am still only developing my mod, I can easily ignore this, because I can create new savegames for testing, of course. But as my mod is a quest mod that I want to publish, I want to ensure that any update that I will have to provide later (e.g. for important bugfixes) won't break other users' savegames, because this would force them to restart the whole quest over and over! I'd like to learn more about the chances that I have to develop my mod in a way that helps avoid this issue, or at least minimize the risk. I guess that this requires nothing less than understanding what the game engine does with savegames and mods (which may seem nearly impossible!), but I'd like to gather together whatever is known. Possible reasons that I know of (or at least suppose to be a reason) are: 1.) Mixing up old and new script variables, which may result in the game engine mixing up their persisted values (as detected by Wrye long time ago and described here) 2.) Changing the name of the esp file, the name of the quest or the name of the script, which may all result in the game not being able to assign the persisted values properly on game load 3.) Changing the load order position of the esp(?) 4.) Using a Bashed Patch created with Wrye Bash that might interfere with my esp if it hasn't been rebuilt properly the mod update 5.) ...? These are the things that I tried to regard so far, but, unfortunately, with only partial success, so apparently there must be other possible causes. Can anybody append more things to this list? In general, I am not sure whether such errors are always caused by custom scripting only. For instance, if my savegame is suddenly missing an item that this quest added, but the item is not referenced/used in any of my scripts, how could a recent script change then be the reason for that? I am hungry for more ideas, so thanks alot to anybody who wants to take part in this discussion!!

Is this really the only sad truth? Aren't there any means at all to guarantee compatibility of updated quest mods with outdated savegames? For some reason, I still don't want to give in to what Tefnacht states... :) I am wondering how all those brilliant quest modders outside there usually handle their mod updates without breaking thousands of savegames! If every quest mod would demand a "clean" save with every update, we would forces players to start the quest all over every time! Right now I am fighting with exact that issue, and I don't want to give up hope: I have created a quest and playtested it multiple times up to several different stages, and created savegames for every stage. And now - after changes to the code - some savegames are not compatible anymore (items are missing etc.), while others are. Well, I have been warned, of course, but something makes me not believe that this is all unavoidable! I tried my best to track this down to a lot of possible reasons, and I believe that this is not caused by script code changes! I have done everything, for instance, to avoid the common known issue caused by changing script variables, detected by Wrye long time ago (read this section in the TES CS Wiki for details). Does anybody have some more experience with that problem? What could be other possible reasons? [EDIT: I have now posted this question in better words here.]

Here we are: The problem is solved! I had to do a lot of research for myself, learning the basics of EnhancedMusicControls and StreamMusic. Though there are still some open questions, I got my custom tracks working fine. For details, read THIS thread. Cheers! :D

Yes, I think that after all that I have learned here, I may have overcome the first (and biggest) obstacles! I should "dare" now to dig deeper into it. If only "reading" my full load order in TES4Edit wouldn't be such a terrible amount of work. But I think I'm now hungry for more... ;) I wish you the same! Why not try to play my upcoming mod? You may want to give it a chance after all and check whether it kills all your NPC's factions? :laugh: :whistling:

Yes, I think that this is the part that I have understood after all this struggle with my special faction issue. Now I see clearer what importing is actually ment for, and how Wrye Bash handles it. Though I could have never ever been able to figure this out just by reading the documentation. The only problematic situation that comes to my mind is when another mod changes the same record and is also tagged for import. I guess that the mod loading last will simply win, right? This is what happened in my "experiment". In this case we would have two mods that are both correctly tagged, but still one of them would kill the other in the overlapping record. I had expected that Wrye Bash would merge the (imported) changes of both mods, but apparently it doesn't. That's nice to hear! :) I think I should settle this case down after all and lean back for a while. There are probably much heavier compatibility issues out there.

Ok, once again I can see it clearer now. I try to summarize it in my own words: When a mod is tagged for "import", Wrye Bash will only import those records that are actually invisible somehow, i.e. either shadowed by some other mod in the load order, or because the whole mod is disabled. This means, if I want to force Wrye Bash to import records from my tagged mod, I have two possibilities: - place my mod before another mod that redefines the same records - place my mod at the end, but then I need to disable it. Very strange... though I think I can see the logic.

Yes, that's it!!! Surprisingly, your very last hint brought the solution after all! What I didn't consider was that I have to deactivate my esp before building the patch and importing factions. I tried it again, while it was inactive, and now the load order doesn't seem to count anymore! Whatever the order of the two mods is, Baurus now has both factions assigned, as long as my mod was deactivated during building the patch. Though I still don't really understand why this is how it is and what exactly is going on during the build, it works as expected! The only problem would now still arouse when there's more than one mod to be deactivated/imported at the same time. But I think I can really neglect this now. As I cannot give you more than 1 Kudos points, all I can say is: Thanks alot once again!! It's the first time that I managed to understand some of the deeper mechanisms of Wrye Bash! :)

At first, thanks once again! I really appreciate the help! I've already learned a lot, despite all confusion! And I hope it's getting better... ;-) Funny enough, in the meantime I have tried to do exactly as you say - just using {{BASH:Factions}} and importing factions from my esp into the patch... according to the readme. I tried two different scenarios, with partial success (see below). My conclusion in short terms: This solution only seems to works when I place my own mod very early in the load order, i.e. before any other mod that also assigns factions to the same NPCs. My "experiment" (which is reproducible) runs as follows: 1. I created a new "TestFactions.esp" that just defines 1 new faction ("Test Faction") and assigns it to 1 vanilla NPC ("Baurus"). Let's treat it like some other guy's mod. My goal is to ensure that these 3rd party faction assignments are not broken by my mod. 2. I activated TestFactions.esp 3. I then tagged my own mod, which assigns "My Faction" to Baurus, with {{BASH:Factions}} and placed/activated it after TestFactions.esp in the load order 4. I created the Bashed Patch, importing factions from my mod --> result: The Bashed Patch is completely empty (blank file). Baurus is only member of "My Faction" (apart from the vanilla factions that I don't mention here) 5. Then I moved my own mod to a position before TestFactions.esp and rebuilt the Bashed Patch --> now The Bashed Patch Details contain exactly one record for Baurus. Ingame, everything is as expected: Baurus is now member of both factions Any other experiments with Filtering, Merging, Deactivating etc. resulted in Baurus having none of both factions at all (as I had already expected... just mentioning it for completeness). Did I do anything wrong? Or is this all correct? In the first case (4.) I suppose that due to natural load ordering my mod just overwrites the Baurus record from the other mod, no matter whether I use import or not. In the second case (5.), the Baurus record seems to be imported into the Patch, but without shadowing anything from the Baurus record in the other mod? It rather seems that now Baurus' faction list has somehow been merged (as I had hoped). However, the correct load order seems to be critical! Maybe this is exactly what Wrye Bash is expected to do (and what I needed to understand by doing all of this). But now I am afraid that this means a problem for me and my mod, as I'll have to tell everybody - either to place my mod "in front of any other mod that assigns factions to vanilla NPCs" before building the patch --> I doubt whether many users are willing to analyze all of their mods - or, if they don't use Wrye Bash, to be aware that there "might be some conflicts with any other mods that assign factions to vanilla NPCs" --> I guess that this will make many users ignore my mod, either because they don't understand, or because they just trust my mod. But maybe this is how it works. Or is there another way? Maybe I am also just trying to be too thorough a bit :(