Mitigate

This is why you're failing at persuading people. If you want to state a position write a pamphlet or a poster. If you want to discuss with others, it's going to be an interaction and you'll have to consider their reactions just as much as your own opinions. However, you have more than enough people to respond to in this thread, so I'm going to head off. Good luck, and I do hope for your own sake that you take some consideration for your own emotional wellbeing as well. Taking a break from a thread doesn't mean admitting defeat, and I think you'll benefit from trusting the audience to understand your position without simply being swayed by what they see as the majority stance. As much as I'm defending the feelings of others here, that doesn't mean you should sacrifice your own either. Ta mate, have a good one.

They respond to money. They aren't doing this out of the concern for the gaming community... If that were the case why would they jump right in with paid mods like they did? It's a takeover. A clever, subtle takeover. They stated that they were going to withdraw and figure out how to implement their plans without the objection and backlash they received last time... Bethesda.net is their solution.

It is. I only tried to influence those who hold the power to choose. Instead they seem content with selling out and allowing the current, working system to be damaged.

I've never seen a corporation with the best interests of the workers in mind... I don't think that exists. We can sit here and talk about magical fairy dust unicorn rainbow land where corporations are kind because their mother's hugged them a lot as a child... But the real world will still be what it is when we get done talking about it. The person who holds the power gets the lion's share of the profit. I take the 33% my company gives me, cash my paycheck, and go home happy that I have a home to live in. I'm not going to bite that hand that feeds me just because I want more, I am rather happy not being homeless or hungry. Well that is a whole other discussion. One involving the fact that everything you work for was once free until it was claimed and sold to the highest bidder... Now you need to break your back just to have somewhere to sleep at night. Insanity...

I can't speak for Skyrim, as I don't play it. (not into the whole using swords to fight dragons thing...) Fallout 4 on the other hand was worth well over the $60 I payed for it. Incredible game vanilla and doesn't need any mods to be fun. If someone was trying to sell me a 'fix' for $5 I would simply ignore it and not pay anything. What is or isn't fair isn't for me to decide, but when it comes to corporations, the rules have been set out long before I was ever born. You are never going to get the lion's share. To fight that would be to fight the very fabric of corporate America and capitalism... And I don't have the energy to fight that. Is it right? It doesn't matter what I think is right... I am just saying how the world is. You never get 50% of anything you do as long as you are working under someone else's banner. Which is EXACTLY why you shouldn't be concerned with profit or work under someone else's banner if you don't have to, especially when that banner has not got the best interests of the workers in mind.

Don't you think just moving along is the reason things keep getting worse?

I absolutely agree that you shouldn't be insulted as part of the discussion. However when your reaction to others feeling insulted is to completely disregard their opinion and blame their interpretation rather than accepting any responsibility for causing them offense, it becomes difficult to condemn others for insulting you. They could as easily present some defense as to why their insults were appropriate. The degree to which you choose to uphold a civil conversation will influence how people talking to you is interpreted. Also in the hopes of lightening the mood. http://i.imgsafe.org/c3be86181d.jpeg Spiderman actually was trying to save the city though. I'm not interested in making everyone feel good. I'm defending a position, All that matters is what my position entails, not whether everyone is having a good time or reacting negatively to my words. Their reactions are their own responsibility. The mood doesn't need to be lightened, at least as far as I see. I'm not getting heated or offended at all. Why would I? Trying to insult me only makes the person lose credibility.

The difference between yourself and me is that I never denied insulting you, but you brought it to this level well before anyone else in the thread by labeling anyone who uses Bethesda.net as a sellout. Present tense. Not this walk-back you're trying to do now about how we MIGHT be if paid mods return. Funny, I don't see any paychecks coming my way with Robin's name on them as my boss or Nexus on there as the company I work for. And I'll have you know that having already participated in paid modding once before tells me I could very easily have made a "career" out of it if the money I made in 3 short days was any indication. That 3 days was already many orders of magnitude more money than had ever come in in the YEARS on Nexus getting donations before that. It's not us who are delusional or caught up in a dream. It's you. Lecat seems to have you pegged at this point. Green with envy. Nothing more. You have offered nothing substantive to the discussion during the whole thread other than to repeatedly call people sellouts for putting their work up on Bethesda.net. That was return fire. Not the opening salvo. You definitely are not above the behavior, but I figured it was the only thing you understood given your tone throughout this whole thread. And again, I'm going to call you out here. If you knew anything about me AT ALL you wouldn't even need to be asking this question. So I don't think you know diddly squat about this community at all, which is why people are calling you ignorant. You can feel free to scroll back and check but I said anyone who went exclusively beth.net when paid mods return would be a sellout. If you misunderstood, that's your issue. Your 'return fire' was actually the first strike. I haven't even picked up my rifle... You are agreeing with lelcat? If I was so jealous, wouldn't I just make my own mods and welcome paid modding? Your reasoning doesn't add up Arthmoor. I assumed you would be smarter than that. I assume though that you do not intend to sell your patches? Well, you aren't completely lost then. Do you intend to remain on the Nexus though?

Of course. I agree. However I feel games like Skyrim are worth 15+ pages of this to try and help keep them as they have been until capitalism shoves it's fingers where it shouldn't in the name of whatever Bethesda's PR bullshit claims and wrecks something that isn't in need of any interference.

The idea of the mod author (aka myself) getting 50% is nothing short of preposterous to me... It would be nice, I guess... But I have never seen any company in the real world function in such a way. I have never got more that a third of the profit that I ever earned a company. Most companies are much less than one third, and I am grateful that my current job gives me 33% of the money people pay for my services. Without that built in audience of 20+ million Fallout 4 players, nobody would be playing my mod. And in Arthmoor's case, where he uses his time and effort to fix the mess Bethesda left us all with in Skyrim and whatever other game he has made unofficial patches for in order for them to work correctly? Bethesda should get a majority for that?

In what way has your right to a position been challenged? You have stated your position, others have stated theirs. You, they and I have all continued to express our opinions despite them being different to one another. Other people disagreeing with you is no worse than you disagreeing with them. Well so far I've been labelled a troll, a jackass, jet addicted, jealous and just plain ignorant. Disagreement is one thing. I feel I have to defend my position from obvious slander. This is typical internet tactics. The one who is disagreed with by the majority gets bullied into silence or giving up, leaving the majority to reason that they have the superior position and have 'won' the debate.

Well I suppose that's one way of approaching social interaction, however I have serious doubts as to its long-term efficacy. If perhaps at some point in a hypothetical future you're wondering "Wow, why does everyone seem to react so badly to everything I say?" Please, think back on this moment and consider that perhaps you may need to re-examine this approach. Because to be honest, if after 15 pages of the thread you keep on having to say "But I'm not saying X" to everyone else involved then your communication strategy is clearly ineffective. Your words are not conveying what you wish them to. Regardless of who you choose to blame for this failure of communication, it might well be time to pick some other words. Your reasoning is sound. I'm just trying to be another voice in the sea. Apparently though, my right to a position ends where it opposes the majority's. But are the majority more intelligent than the minority? Society tells us the answer is no. So perhaps where I am coming from is indeed being misunderstood.

Perhaps to a console user who is just getting familiar with mods, what you have made is amazing. But it may actually barely be average going by the standards of PC mods. The consoles are desperate to get whatever they can right now. After all, they are the people that will pay for Minecraft skins lol. However, they are also the ones stealing your work... Just watch how bad THAT gets when paid mods comes back... Remember, these are the same kids that play COD and tell each other they're going to rape their mothers...

I disagree. If I say that someone who buries seeds is a gardener and an individual gets offended because they plan on burying seeds at some point but do not want to be labelled a gardener. I am not guilty of offending. A sellout is someone who betrays the soul or integrity of something for reasons of expedience. If Arthmoor chooses to do that one day, then that's on him. All I did was describe what that would make him. How he reacts to that is his fault. By your reasoning, and Arthmoor's, he is guilty of calling me a jackass troll earlier. So if any shots have been fired, they were fired from his foxhole. I am above that kind of behaviour.

What you are currently experiencing is envy. It is a human emotion and everyone has it. You see someone else getting or possibly getting a financial advantage so your mind uses this very graphic set of words to project your anger at it. And to tear apart this barbarically stupid metaphore you use: Bethesda is probably taking 60-70% of the profit. They created the game and the tools so obviously they want a large cut of it. I would personally preferred 50% for the artist, but what can one do, they own the engine and they can dictate the terms. Included in that profit is the access to a large marketplace, the entire Fallout 4 playerbase. So, getting 30% of the revenue for myself as a modder seems somewhat reasonable. Based on any other job I have ever done, 30% is incredibly generous. 10% is reasonable. You don't believe the mod author deserves the majority? I do.

What you are currently experiencing is envy. It is a human emotion and everyone has it. You see someone else getting or possibly getting a financial advantage so your mind uses this very graphic set of words to project your anger at it. You lack an argument and I called you out for hiding behind others, so now you resort to the only thing you have left to offer... Irrational accusations of me being jealous.

I haven't bought Fallout 4 yet. Been holding off because of this bethesda.net issue. That and buying a Bethesda title before a year has passed and the GOTY gets released is stupid. I play Skyrim exclusively now, used to play FO3.

Proof?

Don't see how it is 'easy money' Nothing about making mods is really easy. And some modders already make plenty of money already without paid mods. Also, paid modding is not a scam... I do not know where you get that idea. I know people who make paid mods and I hear it is very lucrative. I am satisfied with with my career. No one is "drooling." No one "gets rich quick" from royalties. I don't understand your "lottery" and "illegal gambling" thing. This stuff is a hobby. Why would anyone *not* want to get paid for a hobby? I do not care either way about the paid mods argument, I am just annoyed people get so butt hurt about it. It seems like the only people complaining aren't the authors but the consumers. Beth/Zenimax is not some kind of evil group seeking to crowdsource and exploit modders, that makes no sense and is just paranoid. Anyone who thinks this please remove the tin foil hat. But that is EXACTLY Bethesda and Zenimax's plan. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have jumped right in last year with paid mods... Of which they get majority of the profit, throwing you some scraps for your effort to make you feel special. Like the myth where a leech injects numbing saliva as it sucks your blood...

You have, and you just did again. It doesn't much matter if you're claiming it to be for future acts you disagree with or not. You're being plainly insulting in your approach. Then why are you doing exactly that by hurling insults at people? Then you must be guilty of calling me a 'jet addicted, jackass troll'? If so, you cannot exactly judge. Nevertheless, I still maintain I am not hurling insults at anyone. If you are getting offended because you feel you would fit the bill at some point in the future, that's your choice to make. You are already getting paid for your mods on the Nexus. Even for patches. You get paid via donations. You will never be able to make a career selling mods... You're caught up in a dream if that's what you think. Donations are not payment. And you got owned by Arthmoor. Because you called him a sell-out. You again? Nobody called anyone a sellout. Stop hiding behind him and jumping out to spit when the chance presents itself.

You have, and you just did again. It doesn't much matter if you're claiming it to be for future acts you disagree with or not. You're being plainly insulting in your approach. Then why are you doing exactly that by hurling insults at people? Then you must be guilty of calling me a 'jet addicted, jackass troll'? If so, you cannot exactly judge. Nevertheless, I still maintain I am not hurling insults at anyone. If you are getting offended because you feel you would fit the bill at some point in the future, that's your choice to make. You are already getting paid for your mods on the Nexus. Even for patches. You get paid via donations. You will never be able to make a career selling mods... You're caught up in a dream if that's what you think.

Oh, thankyou. I actually thought I'd been a bit harsh at some points, but I've gotten a bit worked up over the topic. It's a passionate topic. The trick is to not make it personal.

If you compare making mod for money with playing the lottery then you don't really understand how mathematical probability works. Also you are drooling with envy. I underlined the words that show it. You are angry someone might make money and you are not getting a cut. Oh and Nexus is happily making money off mods without the modders getting a cut. And go to hell for declaring modding not legit work in a creative field. You seem to have missed the point. And mod authors ARE getting money on the Nexus, through donations.

Agreed.

No one is saying mod authors shouldn't be paid for their work...