sisterof

From the link I linked: Use these commands to end the quest: setstage dlc2mq06 550 followed by setstage dlc2mq06 580. The 580 state of the quest is what raises the new altar from the pool of liquid. The raising of the altar will sometimes bring up Miraak's body if he is stuck under the liquid. This is also the state that causes the glowing skills icons to appear. It's a pity you're having such trouble with it. I had the luck of it working perfectly the first time I played, so I knew what should happen in the next three times I did it and it bugged out. It's very frustrating when you don't know what's supposed to happen - so you're unsure if you should wait or what... :confused: I'd advise you to try again without rushing into battle or anything. Toggle godmode on and just wait for every single speech, let him attack first, and so on. Give the game a chance to do all its scripts without interruption. Godmode allows you to do that without worrying. If that still doesn't work, then use the setstage command. The dialogue is pretty neat, though, so it's worth replaying it to get it, in my opinion.

So he already did the kiddie pool thing three times and now he's invulnerable? He's supposed to kill the Dragons, not you. Has Hermaeus Mora said anything at this point? Check the bugs list here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Dragonborn:At_the_Summit_of_Apocrypha and give us a shout if you need help. :smile: He's supposed to become invulnerable in the center three times, at each time killing one of the Dragons. Maybe if you killed them before he had the chance to, the scene script got borked. In this case, do you have a recent save? If he did get the three souls and went through the three invulnerable moments, then you'll have to try opening the console, clicking him (at the center top of the console you'll see his hex code) and type disable, hit enter, and then enable and hit enter.

@TheLoreSeeker: "Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only truth." And then they changed their minds. :biggrin: Anska, that was one great moment. And she ended up better than before, imo. Unless the gem was of sentimental value, the only memento of a lost loved one... <insert eternal guilt>

Strange that you can get him to 40% and not defeat him, though. If you don't mind cheating, you can always toggle god mode. Open the console and tgm. He's always untouchable in the kiddie pool as he attacks the Dragons.

All of them. And then slash them in half with my axe. ;) Anime-style RPGs are quite well represented as it is. No need to betray the style of TES.

When I heard that as a Khajiit, felt like answering "Yeah, a lot more coming out of my ass too, wanna see? Perhaps we could bond over braiding it together." :dry:

And today, as Dovahkiin waltzed around Whiterun, comes a guard: "With respect, Companion, I'd ask that you and your friends muzzle that dog of yours. The howling coming from Jorrvaskr has gotten out of hand." :biggrin:

@Lithium Flower: Yessss, you're working on the synopsis thing! I only noticed the signature now, despite it being... quite huge. Good job so far. Perhaps it would be good to add the point of "at least half Skyrim doesn't want anything to do with the Stormcloaks and only wants peace". I'm sure you know the counter arguments to that too. :biggrin: And maybe address the "Ulfric is a hypocrite - he surrenders in Helgen". Oh, another one... "the Stormcloak Rebellion is all about being pissed over the ban of Talos from the Empire's pantheon, so a huge overreaction while several Imperials worshiped him discreetly." If you want to discuss any of those things and don't want to clutter the thread, feel free to pm! @EVERYONE: Read Lithium Flower's signatuuuuure! For great justice! Organizing both sides' ideas helps us all keeping the discussion clear, and also helps anyone who comes along to quickly catch up. Hmm how can I make people read this... <browses through smiley list>. Oh yes. I hope this Psyduck will be enough to get everyone's attention: beware the Psyduck! :psyduck:

The line of Emperors called "of Dragon blood" have nothing to do with the kind of power/role the Dragonborn (and Miraak) have, despite using the term "Dragonborn" too. Miraak and Skyrim's hero are Dragon souls inhabiting mortal bodies, and have the ability to consume a Dragon's soul, thus killing them permanently (they could otherwise be raised). The ones related to the Emperor are actually the chosen of Akatosh to light the Dragonfires and keep the Oblivion Gates shut so the Daedric Lords cannot march into Tamriel. They have nothing to do with Dragons per se. And it's also not a bloodline, as there has been several different bloodlines. Also, their existence became pointless after Martin Septim's sacrifice in Oblivion - by taking the avatar of Akatosh upon himself and shoving Mehrunes Dagon back into Oblivion, the Gates were shut permanently. So, the Dragonfires are not necessary anymore, nor are the "sacred Emperors". Anyone can learn to Shout, they don't have to be Nords, though the ability was first given to the Nords and they perfected it. Anyone can study and learn it, though. I have no idea if a non-Nord can enter Sovngarde. I'd say that yes, they could, but only if they were deeply involved in Nord culture. Shor does not appear in any other pantheon, and Sovngarde is Shor's domain. Why can he be so powerful and yet say there's nothing else for him? Well... maybe he's just depressed. :biggrin: In that case, he needs treatment, not a duel! I really hope there is a story about him to be offered later on. It would be very silly of Bethesda to put some incredibly strong dude there just for shits and giggles. Also, the fact that he is a Redguard (is he? I'm not sure) is very very interesting. And a Redguard wanting to get into Sovngarde, no less...

Hammerfell has not signed a treaty with the Aldmeri Dominion. They fought them to a stalemate and the AD had to completely withdraw, making the Redguards the only to defeat them, and all by themselves, while also being independent from the Empire. Also, I find your lack of grammar disturbing. And trippy. On another note, I'll repeat that "Redguard" would be a good DLC since it could mean allying Skyrim with Hammerfell. And we could visit a few cities, Tribunal style, instead of having a whole province since it would be too much for a DLC.

This was said on Reddit: "There are 2 more paid DLC expansions planned - both of them true expansions like Dragonborn (one is a bit smaller, one is larger). Without giving a lot away, the next DLC will explore the beginnings of the Nords and Skyrim's culture, as well as the Snow Elves and yes, even the Dwarves. The last DLC will involve the choosing of a new King of Skyrim and the war against the elves." Following the initial release of these details, a Bethesda developer commented on this information as being “a mixture of half-truths gleaned from interviews and outright falsehoods. Best to just move on.” Source. That's what I remember reading on the subject, anyway. A few other sites going through this same event.

The Empire has made no move against the Aldmeri Dominion since the Great War ended (20 years ago!), quite the contrary - they gave the Thalmor even more freedom to act as they please.

Looks like we're going down that way again. @HighkingUlfricStormcloak: Please, use the edit function instead of multi-posting. :/ Makes the thread much cleaner and easier to read. Or were there in-between answers that got deleted? @Talos926: I'll suggest again that you try reading around a bit. Your opinions look quite limited and short-sighted, in my opinion. It would be good to try to see both sides before defending either so fiercely.

That's my point. It may be largely Aela's fault (and ours for cooperating) that Kodlak got killed and Jorrvaskr invaded. As for their presence in the Dustman's Cairn, they had no business with Wuuthrad's fragments. If they were after it, it was a direct attack against the Companions. Now it got me thinking... Were they targeting the Companions before Aela (and Skjor) got pissy? I'm not sure who started the fight. If I remember correctly (and it's been a while), Kodlak didn't want any fighting anymore.

I was wondering that too, until they killed Kodlak... Really, it feels like it was all about Aela using you to fulfill her personal vendetta. She's the one who's Hircine's servant, unlike the other Companions. It's all good and nice, but she ended up bringing the wrath of a Dawnguard-style guild upon Jorrvaskr. Her private issues with werewolf hunters in general (while the only amicable werewolves in the game are the Companions anyway, even the nice imprisoned dude in Falkreath is a child killer) ended up putting Jorrvaskr on the hunters' map, and we as players end up causing Kodlak's murder. Another moment I can think of now wasn't exactly a "what have I done?" as much as a "what have I let this *censored* do?" - when Serana kills the second last Snow Elf without ever giving you the chance of talking him into submission. I rant so much about that particular scene that I may have already done so here in these forums... can't be sure. Bear with me if I'm being redundant. Edit: I'm mildly amused by the fact that a Skyrim forum censors uh... female dogs. :P

Wow, what an insensitive jerk! :biggrin: And of course, SCIENCE demands so much of us. I commend your dedication. Another very common one, that I always find funny since it rarely triggers, is when someone is talking to me and I press TAB and leave, only to hear them shouting in the distance something along the lines of "Well, I was finished anyway!". Oh, and the woman's naked body you find over a stone in a lake, crossed by a Forsworn arrow if I remember correctly. On the margin, there's her equipment perfectly organized and a note saying something like "My father says it's dangerous here in the wilderness with all these Fornsworn, but I love swimming in the lake. I'm sure it's safe enough!" Oh oh! How could I forget that. I'm aware I'm easily amused but damn, I laughed to tears the first time I heard Galmar saying "That godless Emperor can shove his damn treaty into the steaming nether-reaches of my you-know-where." STEAMING. It's so... thoroughly descriptive and colorful. And he says his nether-reaches, not the Emperor's, which probably wasn't his intention before his mind simply got lost in the... um... poetry of it.

Eh, I don't agree people should just start posting on a debate thread without reading a bit. Of course there's a hell lot of points to be missed simply because they're all scattered around and the thread's almost bible's length by now! :biggrin:That's why I think we should help with Lithium Flower's idea, make a synopsis and put it right on the beginning so everyone can check a few clear posts before posting themselves. @Lithium Flower: your answer just appeared here. As I was telling RighthandofSithis, it would be grand to have a synopsis. It would be very helpful for any future user that joins us. Can't we open a new thread ourselves just to organize it? If we can't, then we could at least go on with making this synopsis thing and then suggest the new users to check post #143543543 to see it. Edit: Oh I just got promoted from Stranger to Journeyman. Mead all around. And everyone's excused from their jobs today, let's celebrate! ;)

Another thing to bear in mind, that a lot of people seem to disregard, is that Skyrim's revolt is not just about not being able to worship Talos. It is about the drainage of resources, like the silver mines and the army, endlessly into the Empire - while the Empire lets the Thalmor run free and do its thing. Which includes kidnapping and torturing civilians. And it also shows absolutely no initiative to stand up against the Dominion any time soon. I reiterate, yet again, that perhaps we'd have this dissension even without the Thalmor threat - simply because the Empire is in ruins and dragging all its provinces down with it. @Talos926: I too suggest you read up a few of the last pages, we've been through your arguments. I don't think it was rude at all for HighkingUlfricStormcloak to call you out on it - bear in mind people here have discussing this for a while and it's only respectful to check a bit of what's going on before posting something. Of course there's no need to read the whole stuff, but a bit would help. That said - welcome to the thread! Another thing I'd like to point out (and I did before in this thread) is that neither side is a paragon of justice and all that is right and good. There's no such thing in factions or characters, and in our case here we have no saints in the Civil War. It's a matter of what defects your character is willing to let pass, and for what ends (each side fights for a different end scenario). @Lithium Flower: I think you missed my previous post about the document you're organizing. I'd repeat here then: I think it would be great if you linked it for us all to add/correct stuff and then start a new thread with it as the first post(s) so everyone that comes in later can have a good starting point. :smile: Edit: Adding a welcome to our new user since I was the one being rude this time. XD

Another serious case of Lore/Gameplay Dissonance®. :biggrin: @AlienSensei: It was a relief when I first saw that video. Shows I wasn't the only one taken back the first time I went to Whiterun by such intense display of swag. Ulfric follows pretty close, but on a different way - he hasn't got the moves like Balgruuf. :P

Maybe it could be called Redguard because of an alliance with Hammerfell? Then we'd finally get to face the Thalmor. Though I'm not sure a single DLC could deal with the whole story. Edit: Still set in Skyrim, I mean. And it would be very strange for them to name it Redguard as it would get people's hopes up about a new province. IF we get out of Skyrim in a DLC, maybe it's gonna be like Morrowind's Tribunal, with just a few cities?

But then we'd have our very first "racist" questline... I doubt any hold would accept an Argonian or Khajiit or any non-Nord as Jarl. Same thing for High King. Also, remember that if the Dragonborn happens to become a Jarl, and happens to not be Nord, the lore in future games would have to address it. It's simply too unusual to "forget". They can gloss over a character that is simply Dragonborn (without mundane authority), but they cannot simply say "oh, he also happened to become the noblest of noblemen in Skyrim, but nobody ever noticed his race despite the fact there has never been a non-Nord Jarl". :ermm:

Forgive me the extra lack of eloquence, it's that hour of the morning. I think I already said my conclusions on that 9..13? post. About it being about choosing what fits the character the most, blabla, et cetera, you know my arguments. :biggrin: The only thing I'd like to reiterate is that, since either side has about the same chances of defeating the Thalmor and so on, and are equally morally ambiguous, our characters have to choose what they think is the best political situation for the future in terms of Tamriel's structure. Does you character defend an all-encompassing empire or not? Personally, not as any of my characters but as a player from this boring world of ours, since TES is a fantasy game, I don't see the value of the Empire without is ties to the Gods, as I pointed out before. It is already dead politically. Why does it even exist if not because the Emperor is special in a supernatural way? Take out the god-factor, why want to unify the provinces under a single banner? We could just have allies, European Union style. I think that's the path of any evolving society - but bear in mind I'm an anarcho-communist, so centralized powers go quite against my core beliefs of what constitutes a mature society. Now if you throw some sparkles and divinities in my story, I'll gladly go with "Long live the Emperor, chosen of Akatosh!". :P Now, I don't know if Bethesda is ready to make a political evolution with TES. Maybe we're gonna be living a mixture of feudalism and imperialism to the end of days because the lore is structured this way. @Lithium Flower: Is it too big to put here? What about each of us read it, add/fix stuff and then we start the new thread with it as the very first new post(s) ? So anyone who comes along can know clearly where we stopped. Edit: OMFG is this post editing tool utterly buggy or am I just incredibly hare-brained? I'm not sure I want an answer.

If we continue on the human/elven provinces - none. We have enough races that fit the lore without major writing gymnastics. If we get to Elsewyr at some point, I'd love to see the other kinds of Khajiit. Maybe have the more "werewolf style" one as playable too, but not all of them. The issue with a new playable race is that it would be created for a very narrow roleplaying style. You cannot play a Falmer that simply grew up in a farm and so on. There is a hell lot of backstory already going on with your character, and no one would miss the fact that you're very different from every single other Elf. So it would be an entire playable race that only fits a very specific kind of shoes, unlike all the others. A playable race isn't only about appearance. That said, it's quite silly that in Skyrim you don't see a single Khajiit allowed into the cities, but the player character waltz in without hearing a single comment about it... "Lore/Gameplay Dissonance®".

I really don't think so, screendrop. People on both sides on this thread have both brought up excellent points on why Skyrim could stand up alone or not. Highly simplifying the whole issue, I think we're stuck with either a lonely province or a dying empire. Neither are strong enough to withstand the Thalmor as it is. IF the Empire would get its act together and do something, but it doesn't. IF Skyrim could ally itself with other provinces. But neither of those things are offered ingame. So as far as the Civil War questline goes, in my opinion, no side is stronger than the other. It is purely a question of roleplaying your character's allegiance. This actually upsets me that we don't get a conclusion. But it's the same with series, books and such... We just have to wait for the next chapter. And how annoying it is. :/ At least, it's not like Legacy of Kain, where we got 5 games and then the series were abandoned and we'll never ever get a conclusion. I believe a huge part of my soul died thanks to that event. :dry: @Lithium Flower: I'm glad you like it! I haven't found anyone else to discuss it with yet. I watched two episodes (Ulfric Vladimir appears only on the second) so far, but I'm really enjoying it. The acting is very good. The villain is one of my favorite characters already (their landlord). So far it hasn't abused violence/sex like Game of Thrones or Spartacus, which I always find a cheap, childish attempt at being "omfg so mature". And the best of all, imo: everyone is disgustingly dirty. People in fur boots walking in muddy water. Hair that clearly haven't been washed in a whole season. I love medieval scenarios/costumes that don't assume people had easy access to hygiene. That's one of my issues with Skyrim - it's too clean! :biggrin:

I'd go with Winterhold for greatest disappointment too, for the same reasons Lithium Flower mentioned. It's simply a non-city. Dawnstar follows pretty close. The other cities may be troublesome but the mere fact of having so much personality makes them great. As for worse city to live in, disregarding wall/non-walled status, I'd choose Riften and Markarth too. Both are controlled by different kinds of mafia that make the common citizen either extremely oppressed or simply a target. The previous posters pointed all that I would already. And the best city? Whiterun! Pretty, walled, Jorrvaskr, awesome Talos statue, Grey-Manes, Jon Battle-Born-Yet-Chill, beloved crazy priest Heimskr Talos bless his soul, and the Jarl with the most swag that ever swagged.