Arthmoor

Legit beefs really. It's why I'm buying more and more stuff from GoG.com instead these days. No DRM hassles that way. You get your games with none of the crap piled on top of them.

In response to post #24736644. #24737469, #24739084, #24739339, #24739754, #24740069, #24740154, #24740309, #24740314, #24740394, #24740474, #24740484, #24740639, #24741189 are all replies on the same post. That's just it. I don't consider it a case of two wrongs making anything. The fact is, 25% is considered quite generous by a large community of folks who are making a living doing what they love. THEY still have that choice, even if it's only 5%. We don't. Also, I didn't say EVERYONE was being a trollish pig about this. I think it should be kind of obvious that when someone says "trolls ruined this" they're talking about the ones who actually spoke up and were being trolls. We all know who they are. I'd even bet that most of them weren't even involved in the Skyrim community at all and just showed up to make trouble. I think we all know who THEY are too. If it makes me a giant asshole for being mad that I no longer have the option due to people who had no business telling me I couldn't, then so be it.

In response to post #24736644. #24737469, #24739084, #24739339, #24739754 are all replies on the same post. There are details most people against this fail to consider, but there's not much point in mentioning them now. Suffice it to say that I have talked to enough people who do freelance art work recently who were downright jealous that we were going to get a 25% cut. While I was appalled that a lot of people who publish creative works, even ORIGINAL creative works that are not derived from others, are getting as little as 5% of the proceeds. Once this was made clear, I was more willing to accept it. It's not often you get the chance to get paid for making derivative works of someone else's IP. Especially when they've removed all of the potential legal hurdles from your path ahead of time. No idea what that cost them, but it couldn't have been cheap. What I'm not the least bit happy about is the abrupt decision to cave in to angry mobs. Especially when we were not told it was coming, and still haven't been officially told. We had to find out the same way you did. From a surprise blog post by Valve. So yeah, I'm pretty pissed off at Valve right now.

In response to post #24736644. #24737469 is also a reply to the same post. A very good analogy. I like it. It's exactly what this stood to become. I'd even wager the first Craft Fair had its share of problems but instead of scrapping the idea the involved parties worked out the kinks and made it better for everyone. That's what should have happened here, but instead a whole lot of people just used it as an opportunity to rage and throw a fit. Over what? A few dollars? With all the truly stupid things people pay for on Steam, one wouldn't have expected mods to be one of those things they WON'T pay for. Yes, guilty as charged, I've bought some of those dumb trading cards and other virtual bling before. What Valve did today makes me wish I had every last penny of it back now. Someone on another part of this thread also asked if it means some of us will be withdrawing from Nexus. I have to be honest. I'm deeply considering it. I didn't get a whole lot of personal flak for my decisions, but that's just it, they were MY decisions and I feel like the community betrayed my right to make such a decision. That includes many of my fellow authors, whom I expected better of. I feel as though Valve betrayed me and the other participants most of all by first telling us to stick with it and ride out the BS and then turning around hours later and pulling the plug WITHOUT TELLING US. Whatever your feelings on the matter of paid mods, really, that kind of thing should tell you a lot about the character of the company. I was willing to give them a chance, and this is how they repaid it. Anyway, there it is. What's done is done, and now everyone has new decisions to make.

In response to post #24704164. False on both counts. It's $100 and it's in actual cash. Not wallet money.

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974, #24610559, #24610884, #24610914, #24612029, #24612584, #24613009, #24613049, #24622364 are all replies on the same post. No worries Dark0ne. A lot of information has been flying around everywhere and at the time I posted on my own forums I was still under the impression that you were dead set against the idea of modders making money. So apologies if I came off a bit harsh. This thing with Chesko bugs me a lot more though. Moreso because he hasn't given everyone all the details as to what he should have expected upon pulling those mods down. We all knew ahead of time that those would be the terms. The mods would remain in the system for those who paid already. Only the author, Valve, and Bethesda can see them at that point. It was in the agreement, it's on the public FAQ, and we've known for 5-6 weeks now.

In response to post #24605164. #24605384, #24605454 are all replies on the same post. Chesko knew the score when he listed his mods for sale. We all did. Valve made it crystal clear to ALL OF US that anything listed that later needed to be taken down would remain on the site to be available to anyone who had paid for a copy already. Whatever happens from here is going to be between Chesko's lawyer and Valve's legal team. I don't predict victory for him. We as authors can terminate the listings at any time. They then become invisible to anyone but us, Valve, Bethesda, and the people who already paid for it. I agree that 24 hours is a bit short, but it's 24 more hours than you get for buying a full sized game that turns out to be bug ridden trash that you can't play and might be out as much as $60 for. I've been burned by bad games myself and as a result became a lot more cautious about what I'll buy there. I would not blame anyone one bit for being mad that they bought a mod that turns out to be garbage and didn't find out until 3 or 4 days later. Provided the problem is actually with the mod, which in many cases isn't always true.

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974 are all replies on the same post. @Dark0ne: I'd have set Nexus as a service provider for the one mod I have in the pay system now but I had a question about it that Valve didn't get around to answering until after the listing was approved. Authors can't change the payment distributions AT ALL once the listing is approved for sale.

If Valve provided a means to remove Steam Wallet funds back to whatever bank card you have registered with them it would solve much of the problem you point out with refunds. I don't think any of us realized refunds become wallet funds. IMO, that's not a real refund. It's like the BS you find at some retail stores where you get "store credit" instead of your money back. There's a reason stores who do that don't do well in sales.

Those would be from mods which have deleted records in them. Anything deleted in a mod ends up floating above the ground at that giant camp because that's where the 0,0,0 origin point for Tamriel is. You're lucky nothing else tried to edit those because it would have resulted in CTDs.

In response to post #24081879. Look at it this way. If such a system comes into being on the Workshop and mods can be sold, it'll be useful as a test case to prove to Microsoft and Sony that mods would be viable on the consoles as well. I wouldn't expect console mods to become a thing for Skyrim since both of those platforms are now obsolete. It would be more likely to see it happen for FO4 (and TES VI later) on the new generation if it happens at all.

In response to post #23967144. #23971239, #23971604 are all replies on the same post. Seems like you're the one insisting there even needs to be enemies here. That doesn't need to happen. Can people not disagree without it turning into such things?

In response to post #23967144. You have demonstrated no such thing. Your argument is purely opinion, not based in facts. For one, there can be no facts since such a system as is being discussed does not exist. For another, as I said, I've read up on the Sims 2 thing before. I have an entirely different opinion of what happened there. I don't think that makes either of us wrong. We just see the outcome in a different light. All I see are a bunch of whiners who are jealous of the ones who were able to make money off of what they do. I have seen nothing posted yet by anyone opposed to the idea that is grounded in fact. It's all baseless speculation centered around the idea that mods should always and forever be free. Well. That ship already sailed since several modding communities now have officially approved pay systems in place for mods.

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239, #23907889, #23916764, #23947279, #23954734, #23963714, #23965734 are all replies on the same post. Except it does, because your argument is rooted in the assumption that all modders and Indie game devs are irresponsible children who are borderline software pirates. You may not have noticed, but there are plenty of us right now in the free modding scene who fight hard for proper attribution, permissions, and the rights of our fellow modders. Even when some of them despise us for doing so. I have. I think the rumors are entirely overblown and are rooted in jealously more than anything else. We don't all see things the same way :P Shezrie covered the remainder. There are plenty of open source free alternatives to the expensive programs you mentioned. You'd also be surprised just how many modders have donated hard earned money to those projects to keep them alive.

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239, #23907889, #23916764, #23947279 are all replies on the same post. Then I guess all Indie Dev studios are greedy too since they don't take on the same level of responsibility as AAA developers. You realize this logic fails hard, yes?

Went to look at the list on the FOTM page. Something isn't right :P February 2015 is missing. December 2014 is listed twice. November 2014 is missing. October 2014 is listed twice. September 2014 is missing. It looks as though this sort of thing continues on down the list for awhile.

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239 are all replies on the same post. Well, right now, there very much IS someone stopping people from charging money for their mods. Bethesda's legal team. They'll come down on you like a ton of bricks for it. Also, folks in various parts of this whole thread keep saying you can go run a Kickstarter. No. You can't. Every last one that Beth has found out about has been shut down due to violating the CK EULA. There's a certain irony in people who say it's greedy to charge money telling people to use Kickstarter in the same breath. Kickstarter usually involves sums of money that are quite large. In any case, I can't see it as greedy even if someone specifically mods to make money. It's using your talents to benefit yourself. We all do this (if we're lucky) - it's called having a job. Some people get paid to dig ditches, others get paid to sell cars, some get paid to make the games we play, and yes, there are some who make careers out of posting dumb videos to Youtube. I fail to see how someone being able to turn modding into a career is a bad thing.

Might seem strange, but in the event of future CK updates they won't wipe out your vanilla scripts you may have edited anymore. Having them wiped out silently during an update used to be a regular source of pain for a lot of us before they stopped updating.

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494 are all replies on the same post. And yet nobody has been able to articulate how getting paid to mod somehow means satisfying monetary greed. I could say the same about all these guys who post Youtube stuff and monetize the videos. Especially since they are arguably making money off of things OTHER people made. Yet nobody seems to be directing their righteous anger at them for it either. It doesn't make much sense to me, in the same way people who call Origin and uPlay evil but embrace Steam when all 3 do all of the same things to their customers.

In response to post #23855034. Don't see how it would divide anything if all parties agreed to a fair split.

In response to post #23836199. One question, not necessarily directed at you, but you're handy :P Why is it considered greedy for a modder to want to get paid? This is something I don't quite get, because it only seems to apply to TES/Fallout for some reason. Nobody seems to be holding this view for hat makers in TF2 and they've made tons of money at it. Or Sims modders for that matter.

In response to post #23607584. #23645249, #23647084, #23650264, #23653244, #23663254, #23664754, #23703214 are all replies on the same post. It's not the fault of the language in this case though. The language is clear. It's the rabid anti-copyright-on-anything-at-all crowd that insists it says things they know damn well it doesn't. You know the type. "It's on the internet, therefore I can do as I please with it." Usually go hand in hand with pirates who refuse to pay for the games they're running all the mods on so you'll never convince them that they're utterly wrong about the issue of ownership and licensing rights.

In response to post #23672494. #23673089, #23687309, #23699549 are all replies on the same post. Uh, then why did you bring it up?

In response to post #23665029. #23665619, #23668824 are all replies on the same post. The difference is you quoted the wrong document which has terms and conditions that do not apply to the CK's use to make mods. Were we to go by the biolerplate legalese for the game itself, modding TES/Fallout games would be in a heap of legal trouble the moment people began distributing them - free or not. I'm pretty sure the actual discussion is that if a paid system comes into being, neither of these agreements will apply to the mods being sold. They would have to craft a new one to cover it.

In response to post #23672494. #23673089 is also a reply to the same post. Well we tried... you know I can't resist EULA quoting :P @RJ: Twitter has less words to use to get there. Wild leaps save time... :P