Endorsements and actual monetary gains

[Gottfridsson]

This is a text wall so... tldr; I like SS2 and when I thought about donating I remembered all the base mods that I feel is needed to make FO4 playable, where should my money go?

---------------

The subject is "are modders getting payed?". I like sim settlements 2, I'm also using MCM and other base mods that everyone is using. If I where to pay I'd like it to be transparent and all dependencies should have their share. Since I've modded before I know I'm missing a mod for my inventory. I don't remember the name but it's missing and it hurts, Vanilla inventory sucks and there is a mod to fix it.

 

As proof of my ignorance/not-paying and my guess is that most people do the same as me, I don't even know the name of the mod. Help me out if you do know. But do know I'm not really entitled to get such favors.

 

I do really hope that not only the "popular quest and visual" mods get donations. I do hope the base mods/tools everyone uses get payed. I would like the donations to moders to be public coz If I'd pay someone I would like that all base tools/mods dependencies get their share. ie controlled by the site (nexus). Not per mod externally managed sites if at all.

 

Nexus move to show donation buttons on download should be more, if a mod depends on another mod or tool like loot then part of donations should go to the other creator.

Leachers like me that enjoy "free games" by using artists work have no actual say in this, nexusmods could be a payed service. I'm suggesting that the actual tool/mod creators should band together and find a framework that allows them to do what they want to do and earn money in a framework that they feel is fair, leachers like me have no say. And the actual creators if banded together would have no problems forcing sites like nexus or leachers like me to follow orders.

 

The badly received Bethesda payed mod system... what if most creators actually banded together and decided where they want to publish their creations and if/how they want monetize it? Instead of steam/bethesda initiating it? Who could blaim them? Most would just follow and pay, or maybe drop the game... ie. my suggestion would be to at least start really cheap...

I just feel that the people actually making bethesda games playable today aren't getting their fair share, Bethesda still gets money from age old games mainly coz of third party unpaid creators and streamers popularizing them..

How about a new sorting category here at nexus, "most donated". (where I would expect to see base tools being the most donated to)

How about artists getting payed for their part in keeping sales for the game up without Bethesda taking a share? - What would happen if all (not a few) unpaid creators stopped sharing? My guess is skyrim and FO sales would halt. The creators here do have a possible power if they really band together, I hope they do. The fact that people that today play Bethesda games say the games are essentially unplayable without mods says a lot about the possible power third party creators have if banded together.

 

What if base tools/mods creators was to band together and decide the rules? It's a smaller group thus easier to do.

And now I'm off searching for ways to donate to SS2, MCM and LOOT, wishing I knew the name of the inventory fixing mod... (not donating to many other deserving mods/tools, I feel they should get their share automatically and transparently)

[Markmid]

I'd have wished restraint and calm when picking a few mods to go semi professional. With the emphasis on a few that reach a certain standard and stability. Maybe a half dozen mod teams. 2 Years minimum time modding, several released and stable mods etc. Acting as independent contractors for each game and talent the game developers could also pick from.

It was sad how it was all handled as a free for all at first. I believe the farce robbed us of several new development teams that would have got their start as modders, and then created games inspired by games we already liked, only with some cashflow to get them started. Thankfully the methods of creating games gets cheaper every year, voice acting being the main stand out, the bill for that is still very high compartively. I know as i've been bugeting myself for game development in the last months.

 

I have thought about your idea and an (optional for mod authors) most donated monthly list on reflection wouldn't be a bad thing, cycling monthly so new releases get a chance for visiblity. I would assume that things which are donated to regularly are those actively developed, and tools will often be among these. It is only an assumption however, and it could go to large scale total conversions instead, I have no idea on the statisics of such things.

What I and many others voiced during the aforementioned farce was a fear that modding would become paid across the board. Which is why it should always be limited to either donations or a few select mod teams that have proven themselves over years, making them independent contractors for the game developers to help support its lifecycle.

In a perfect world eh where restraint beat greed :D.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Markmid

[richroots]

I'm a 3D designer/modeler. About a year or three ago. I found myself needing work. I was told that people get paid working with a group of modders I specifically posted about needing a job. I was lead to believe that I would be paid for my work. I assumed it would be at least a cut of the donations or something. I went through a lengthy interview process. I had to show a portfolio and sign applications. I was told after passing the application process that and interview that I'd be working for free. I was extremely annoyed that my time wasted when I could have been applying for actual jobs. Furthermore I was also annoyed knowing that people donate to the mod authors. And not a single dollar would be offered for my time. Some 3D modelling takes hundreds of hours of work. I currently charge 75$ an hour for this stuff.. I'm not sure what the point of the whole thing was but I strongly felt I was being used.

[HeyYou]

I'm a 3D designer/modeler. About a year or three ago. I found myself needing work. I was told that people get paid working with a group of modders I specifically posted about needing a job. I was lead to believe that I would be paid for my work. I assumed it would be at least a cut of the donations or something. I went through a lengthy interview process. I had to show a portfolio and sign applications. I was told after passing the application process that and interview that I'd be working for free. I was extremely annoyed that my time wasted when I could have been applying for actual jobs. Furthermore I was also annoyed knowing that people donate to the mod authors. And not a single dollar would be offered for my time. Some 3D modelling takes hundreds of hours of work. I currently charge 75$ an hour for this stuff.. I'm not sure what the point of the whole thing was but I strongly felt I was being used.

Modders don't/can't get paid for their projects either. Donations are few and far between. No one on here gets anywhere near 75 bucks an hour for modding. I highly doubt they even get the equivalent of 1 dollar an hour...... A fair few don't even accept donations. (me being one of them) This is a hobby site. Beth FORBIDS mod authors from selling their mods. In all reality, I am surprised they don't take offense at donations, and certainly with folks having Patreons to support their work.....

 

Not sure where you would ever get the idea that someone would pay you 100's of dollars for your work, when they aren't going to make anything from the project themselves.... That's on you.

[richroots]

Because it was a major mod project and donations do happen. I was also searching for a job at the time and was lead to believe there would be pay at some point. Because the person responding to the post indicated that hey your looking for work here's a job. I also didn't expect a 75$ an hour pay I expected a cut of donations and endorsements and went in assuming I would get some monetary kickback.

 

Also, you are condescending and hostile to someone effectively saying they were duped and had their time wasted. What bothered me was the lengthy process only to be told there was no finical return.

 

And as for some mod authors DO get donations and Patreon on major projects at the time any money would have helped.

 

Either way bud your attitude is gross. In particular "that's on you" no it's not on me it was on the people trying to get work for free and indicating that during a time that I needed to concentrate on getting work, then saying here's a job when none existed. Then making me go through a lengthy application and interview period. They indicated that doing hundreds of hours of work for them for free is a privilege. That's on them. Not on me.

 

Here's a job.. indicates payment.

 

Regardless your attitude is condescending and distasteful. No it's not on me. I was being courteous sharing a story with the community. You are defending the bad behavior of bad actors in that community.

Edited September 24, 2021 by richroots

[gnarly1]

Modders don't/can't get paid for their projects either.

Skyrim Together team was at one point making $35k per month via Patreon, IIRC.

[HeyYou]

Because it was a major mod project and donations do happen. I was also searching for a job at the time and was lead to believe there would be pay at some point. Because the person responding to the post indicated that hey your looking for work here's a job. I also didn't expect a 75$ an hour pay I expected a cut of donations and endorsements and went in assuming I would get some monetary kickback.

 

Also, you are condescending and hostile to someone effectively saying they were duped and had their time wasted. What bothered me was the lengthy process only to be told there was no finical return.

 

And as for some mod authors DO get donations and Patreon on major projects at the time any money would have helped.

 

Either way bud your attitude is gross. In particular "that's on you" no it's not on me it was on the people trying to get work for free and indicating that during a time that I needed to concentrate on getting work, then saying here's a job when none existed. Then making me go through a lengthy application and interview period. They indicated that doing hundreds of hours of work for them for free is a privilege. That's on them. Not on me.

 

Here's a job.. indicates payment.

 

Regardless your attitude is condescending and distasteful. No it's not on me. I was being courteous sharing a story with the community. You are defending the bad behavior of bad actors in that community.

If you were under the impression it was a paying job, maybe you should have asked that FIRST then. I don't know of ANYONE that collects wages from working on any particular project. Maybe some of the larger projects, (such as the one mentioned below) have some sort of 'profit sharing' agreement, but, this is a HOBBY site. If you are expecting compensation for your time/effort, that should be one of the FIRST topics covered.

 

I have had many 'jobs', that I did not get paid for. Of course, I didn't expect to get paid for them either. It was still a 'job'.

 

 

Modders don't/can't get paid for their projects either.

Skyrim Together team was at one point making $35k per month via Patreon, IIRC.

 

Yeah, and there was another guy working on a 'mod pack' that was getting nearly 10K per month. Still and all, I am flat out stunned that Beth never made a move against them, they were, after all, in DIRECT violation of the EULA, and various other agreements. Apparently, beth simply stopped caring about such things.

 

Try and sell a mod though, and I bet the lawyers fall like rain in a hurricane.

[richroots]

Tha

 

 

Because it was a major mod project and donations do happen. I was also searching for a job at the time and was lead to believe there would be pay at some point. Because the person responding to the post indicated that hey your looking for work here's a job. I also didn't expect a 75$ an hour pay I expected a cut of donations and endorsements and went in assuming I would get some monetary kickback.

 

Also, you are condescending and hostile to someone effectively saying they were duped and had their time wasted. What bothered me was the lengthy process only to be told there was no finical return.

 

And as for some mod authors DO get donations and Patreon on major projects at the time any money would have helped.

 

Either way bud your attitude is gross. In particular "that's on you" no it's not on me it was on the people trying to get work for free and indicating that during a time that I needed to concentrate on getting work, then saying here's a job when none existed. Then making me go through a lengthy application and interview period. They indicated that doing hundreds of hours of work for them for free is a privilege. That's on them. Not on me.

 

Here's a job.. indicates payment.

 

Regardless your attitude is condescending and distasteful. No it's not on me. I was being courteous sharing a story with the community. You are defending the bad behavior of bad actors in that community.

If you were under the impression it was a paying job, maybe you should have asked that FIRST then. I don't know of ANYONE that collects wages from working on any particular project. Maybe some of the larger projects, (such as the one mentioned below) have some sort of 'profit sharing' agreement, but, this is a HOBBY site. If you are expecting compensation for your time/effort, that should be one of the FIRST topics covered.

 

I have had many 'jobs', that I did not get paid for. Of course, I didn't expect to get paid for them either. It was still a 'job'.

 

 

Modders don't/can't get paid for their projects either.

Skyrim Together team was at one point making $35k per month via Patreon, IIRC.

 

Yeah, and there was another guy working on a 'mod pack' that was getting nearly 10K per month. Still and all, I am flat out stunned that Beth never made a move against them, they were, after all, in DIRECT violation of the EULA, and various other agreements. Apparently, beth simply stopped caring about such things.

 

Try and sell a mod though, and I bet the lawyers fall like rain in a hurricane.

 

that does not excuse your behavior bud. And just because outliers of people getting "jobs for free" exist does not mean you get to be rude or should treat me like crap.

 

In addition to that the post I'm referring too and application was not here on this site. In my post I specifically stated I need employment and money. The person replying indicated employment.

 

That further does not excuse their behavior of expecting hundreds of hours of work for free.

 

We're not talking about using finished assets as hobbyist and moving them around in the creation kit. We're talking about brand new assets that I would have to create from scratch in zbrush and blender and then export to several other programs, uv maps texturing etc.

 

I never got to the point of being able to ASK about profit sharing, and had assumed based on the lengthy application which was more lengthy then some interviews, and they asked for a portfolio and resume, and indicated that employment was available in the original posting in reply. It was upsetting when a lot of my time was wasted.

 

The fact that you are so hostile to others being upset their time was wasted and effectively tricked is why you are being rude. It's not your job to tell others how they should react, you are not the Internet's ombudsman. You don't get to dictate to others how they should feel, if it's there fault or others. You get to nod and say I disagree or not and move on preferably without being rude.

 

 

Other humans exist, try being respectful and civil.

Edited September 24, 2021 by richroots

[HeyYou]

Tha

 

 

Because it was a major mod project and donations do happen. I was also searching for a job at the time and was lead to believe there would be pay at some point. Because the person responding to the post indicated that hey your looking for work here's a job. I also didn't expect a 75$ an hour pay I expected a cut of donations and endorsements and went in assuming I would get some monetary kickback.

 

Also, you are condescending and hostile to someone effectively saying they were duped and had their time wasted. What bothered me was the lengthy process only to be told there was no finical return.

 

And as for some mod authors DO get donations and Patreon on major projects at the time any money would have helped.

 

Either way bud your attitude is gross. In particular "that's on you" no it's not on me it was on the people trying to get work for free and indicating that during a time that I needed to concentrate on getting work, then saying here's a job when none existed. Then making me go through a lengthy application and interview period. They indicated that doing hundreds of hours of work for them for free is a privilege. That's on them. Not on me.

 

Here's a job.. indicates payment.

 

Regardless your attitude is condescending and distasteful. No it's not on me. I was being courteous sharing a story with the community. You are defending the bad behavior of bad actors in that community.

If you were under the impression it was a paying job, maybe you should have asked that FIRST then. I don't know of ANYONE that collects wages from working on any particular project. Maybe some of the larger projects, (such as the one mentioned below) have some sort of 'profit sharing' agreement, but, this is a HOBBY site. If you are expecting compensation for your time/effort, that should be one of the FIRST topics covered.

 

I have had many 'jobs', that I did not get paid for. Of course, I didn't expect to get paid for them either. It was still a 'job'.

 

 

Modders don't/can't get paid for their projects either.

Skyrim Together team was at one point making $35k per month via Patreon, IIRC.

 

Yeah, and there was another guy working on a 'mod pack' that was getting nearly 10K per month. Still and all, I am flat out stunned that Beth never made a move against them, they were, after all, in DIRECT violation of the EULA, and various other agreements. Apparently, beth simply stopped caring about such things.

 

Try and sell a mod though, and I bet the lawyers fall like rain in a hurricane.

 

that does not excuse your behavior bud. And just because outliers of people getting "jobs for free" exist does not mean you get to be rude or should treat me like crap.

 

In addition to that the post I'm referring too and application was not here on this site. In my post I specifically stated I need employment and money. The person replying indicated employment.

 

That further does not excuse their behavior of expecting hundreds of hours of work for free.

 

We're not talking about using finished assets as hobbyist and moving them around in the creation kit. We're talking about brand new assets that I would have to create from scratch in zbrush and blender and then export to several other programs, uv maps texturing etc.

 

I never got to the point of being able to ASK about profit sharing, and had assumed based on the lengthy application which was more lengthy then some interviews, and they asked for a portfolio and resume, and indicated that employment was available in the original posting in reply. It was upsetting when a lot of my time was wasted.

 

The fact that you are so hostile to others being upset their time was wasted and effectively tricked is why you are being rude. It's not your job to tell others how they should react, you are not the Internet's ombudsman. You don't get to dictate to others how they should feel, if it's there fault or others. You get to nod and say I disagree or not and move on preferably without being rude.

 

 

Other humans exist, try being respectful and civil.

I am not intentionally being rude, hostile, or any other negative emotion you care to assign to me, I am simply pointing out that expecting to get paid for a 'job' from a hobby site, is just a bit unrealistic.

 

Much as I would LOVE to be able to make money from my gaming hobby, I am well aware that it is highly unlikely to happen.

[richroots]

Regardl

 

 

Tha

 

 

Because it was a major mod project and donations do happen. I was also searching for a job at the time and was lead to believe there would be pay at some point. Because the person responding to the post indicated that hey your looking for work here's a job. I also didn't expect a 75$ an hour pay I expected a cut of donations and endorsements and went in assuming I would get some monetary kickback.

 

Also, you are condescending and hostile to someone effectively saying they were duped and had their time wasted. What bothered me was the lengthy process only to be told there was no finical return.

 

And as for some mod authors DO get donations and Patreon on major projects at the time any money would have helped.

 

Either way bud your attitude is gross. In particular "that's on you" no it's not on me it was on the people trying to get work for free and indicating that during a time that I needed to concentrate on getting work, then saying here's a job when none existed. Then making me go through a lengthy application and interview period. They indicated that doing hundreds of hours of work for them for free is a privilege. That's on them. Not on me.

 

Here's a job.. indicates payment.

 

Regardless your attitude is condescending and distasteful. No it's not on me. I was being courteous sharing a story with the community. You are defending the bad behavior of bad actors in that community.

If you were under the impression it was a paying job, maybe you should have asked that FIRST then. I don't know of ANYONE that collects wages from working on any particular project. Maybe some of the larger projects, (such as the one mentioned below) have some sort of 'profit sharing' agreement, but, this is a HOBBY site. If you are expecting compensation for your time/effort, that should be one of the FIRST topics covered.

 

I have had many 'jobs', that I did not get paid for. Of course, I didn't expect to get paid for them either. It was still a 'job'.

 

 

Modders don't/can't get paid for their projects either.

Skyrim Together team was at one point making $35k per month via Patreon, IIRC.

 

Yeah, and there was another guy working on a 'mod pack' that was getting nearly 10K per month. Still and all, I am flat out stunned that Beth never made a move against them, they were, after all, in DIRECT violation of the EULA, and various other agreements. Apparently, beth simply stopped caring about such things.

 

Try and sell a mod though, and I bet the lawyers fall like rain in a hurricane.

 

that does not excuse your behavior bud. And just because outliers of people getting "jobs for free" exist does not mean you get to be rude or should treat me like crap.

 

In addition to that the post I'm referring too and application was not here on this site. In my post I specifically stated I need employment and money. The person replying indicated employment.

 

That further does not excuse their behavior of expecting hundreds of hours of work for free.

 

We're not talking about using finished assets as hobbyist and moving them around in the creation kit. We're talking about brand new assets that I would have to create from scratch in zbrush and blender and then export to several other programs, uv maps texturing etc.

 

I never got to the point of being able to ASK about profit sharing, and had assumed based on the lengthy application which was more lengthy then some interviews, and they asked for a portfolio and resume, and indicated that employment was available in the original posting in reply. It was upsetting when a lot of my time was wasted.

 

The fact that you are so hostile to others being upset their time was wasted and effectively tricked is why you are being rude. It's not your job to tell others how they should react, you are not the Internet's ombudsman. You don't get to dictate to others how they should feel, if it's there fault or others. You get to nod and say I disagree or not and move on preferably without being rude.

 

 

Other humans exist, try being respectful and civil.

I am not intentionally being rude, hostile, or any other negative emotion you care to assign to me, I am simply pointing out that expecting to get paid for a 'job' from a hobby site, is just a bit unrealistic.

 

Much as I would LOVE to be able to make money from my gaming hobby, I am well aware that it is highly unlikely to happen.

 

Regardless of your statement, you are being rude. And it's not being assigned to you bud your behavior was off putting and rude. Self reflect. And lastly considering you missed it a few times. It was not posted here on this site. It was not a hobby site. I was replied to by a person who read my post looking for employment in a 3D modelling community on discord.

 

Despite all of that you are not taking responsibility for your rude and condescending behavior. The posting I made that was replied to indicating employment. Was not on a hobby site, and not on nexus mods. So sorry to say you're premise is incorrect.

Edited September 24, 2021 by richroots