Difference between (un)install and (de)activate a mod?

[HeyYou]

I think vortex actually lets you pick and choose individually, which textures get priority from your load list. For NMM, (and I don't know about MO2) all you would really need to do is drag the texture mod you want to overide another, lower in the load order. But, it's an 'all or nothing' type of decision. Any overlapping files would be from the mod that loads later.

 

If you are testing texture mods, installing, looking, removing, isn't a big deal. No actual files get overwritten. It's all in the load order.

[xrayy]

i can confirm that in mo and mo2 nothing will be overwritten at all. not any mod and not the game itself. all mods and the game itself are physically separated from each other. so you are never in a situation where you have to decide about a fixed loadorder like in nmm. in mo you can change things whenever you want by simply enabling or disabling a mod and changing the loadorder by switching the mods in the loadorder tab (virtually) without any restriction and without any physical reinstallation or overwrite action in background. as far as i know mo and mo2 are the only mod managers which use consequently this virtual file system, not touching any mod or the game itself physically. the data folder is always empty (=vanilla state) if you use mo/mo2 but you can use it instead or additionally to the "overwrite"-folder for testing purposes or special mods. mo still works perfectly for me with all the freedom and flexibility for testing mods with whatever loadorder i like to test. i can add and delete virtually at any time and of course also physically if i want to kick a mod. definitely no overwrite decision at any time or loadorder related reinstallation mess or determination at all. tannin probably establlished a comparable feature in vortex. maybe a vortex user can confirm.

 

Dark0ne explained why "bitter sweet" nmm was cancelled. if people do not read (and understand) that or ignore the content and claim that they are fine with nmm even if it misses main convenient modding features it is fine for me but it is difficult to understand and if they complain later on - in a more complex mod scenario with more than a handfull mods about limitations or instabilities they should read that article again and should think about their nmm decision again. it should be a standard lecture for beginners!

i absolutely understand the old hand nmm users that they try to maintain what they built over years with nmm (was difficult enough to maintain it with a minimum of stability) and that they wait with the final cut.

 

i used obmm (nmm predecessor) before i switched to mo and it looked nice. but when it came to "real mod management" with more than only a few mods the problems with load order, missing files and instability began.i did about 6 to 7 reinstalls of oblivion due to these unmanageable instabilities - then i switched to mo and i never had to reinstall oblivion again. testing and solving mod problems since then is a breeze compared to obmm (and nmm) without any risk to lose the basic game due to faulty mods. since then i use mo for all bethesda games (fallout series and skyrim) without complains and with the decribed advantages or as Dark0ne said "advanced features". read that article or ignore it but i assure you that you will never find any "advanced mod managing feature" in nmm as long as you do not change it from scratch as vortex finally did and mo has built in since it exists.

[HeyYou]

i can confirm that in mo and mo2 nothing will be overwritten at all. not any mod and not the game itself. all mods and the game itself are physically separated from each other. so you are never in a situation where you have to decide about a fixed loadorder like in nmm. in mo you can change things whenever you want by simply enabling or disabling a mod and changing the loadorder by switching the mods in the loadorder tab (virtually) without any restriction and without any physical reinstallation or overwrite action in background. as far as i know mo and mo2 are the only mod managers which use consequently this virtual file system, not touching any mod or the game itself physically. the data folder is always empty (=vanilla state) if you use mo/mo2 but you can use it instead or additionally to the "overwrite"-folder for testing purposes or special mods. mo still works perfectly for me with all the freedom and flexibility for testing mods with whatever loadorder i like to test. i can add and delete virtually at any time and of course also physically if i want to kick a mod. definitely no overwrite decision at any time or loadorder related reinstallation mess or determination at all. tannin probably establlished a comparable feature in vortex. maybe a vortex user can confirm.

 

Dark0ne explained why "bitter sweet" nmm was cancelled. if people do not read (and understand) that or ignore the content and claim that they are fine with nmm even if it misses main convenient modding features it is fine for me but it is difficult to understand and if they complain later on - in a more complex mod scenario with more than a handfull mods about limitations or instabilities they should read that article again and should think about their nmm decision again. it should be a standard lecture for beginners!

i absolutely understand the old hand nmm users that they try to maintain what they built over years with nmm (was difficult enough to maintain it with a minimum of stability) and that they wait with the final cut.

 

i used obmm (nmm predecessor) before i switched to mo and it looked nice. but when it came to "real mod management" with more than only a few mods the problems with load order, missing files and instability began.i did about 6 to 7 reinstalls of oblivion due to these unmanageable instabilities - then i switched to mo and i never had to reinstall oblivion again. testing and solving mod problems since then is a breeze compared to obmm (and nmm) without any risk to lose the basic game due to faulty mods. since then i use mo for all bethesda games (fallout series and skyrim) without complains and with the decribed advantages or as Dark0ne said "advanced features". read that article or ignore it but i assure you that you will never find any "advanced mod managing feature" in nmm as long as you do not change it from scratch as vortex finally did and mo has built in since it exists.

Incorrect. NMM does the same thing MO, MO2, and Vortex do. They link files to the data folder, nothing is actually placed there, though windows will make it look like they are. Again, that changed back in the early 60's version of NMM, when they introduced profiles, and installing that version broke your install. :) and you had to reinstall all of your mods.

[xrayy]

Incorrect regarding MO? mo and mo2 does not work with links (physical links). from where is the info it does ? mo and mo2 works with a completely virtualized file system (vfs and mo2 with an extended version) without using any physical links at all. have you ever installed mo or mo2 ? thank you for putting this important information in yellow color. this is completely true for mo/mo2. also true is that nmm is incapable to do the same as mo without using a virtual file system. using pysical links is not the same as using a virtual file system and it has its limitations we discussed already.

some differences between mo2 and nmm just to clearify this (off-)topic:

 

What does mo2 do that nmm is not capable of or limited in ?

• it does not modify game files or folder, so your game folder is kept clean, not a single file is written in there.
• it is stable, not beta like Nexus mod manager.
• it is open source and an active team is developing it, unlike Nexus mod manager which was abandoned for years
• it supports a wide range of compressed files, not only zip or 7zip, but also .Rar and others.
• it is feature-rich, a lot of features that are missing from any other mod managers.
• it Saves you hard disk space by 1/3.
• it doesn't keep mods zip files inside the directory, only the extracted files, so your hard disk space is not kept hostage for duplicate files.
• it loads a lot faster than other mod managers.
• it is faster for installing mods.
• it is easier to install mods.
  it does Not overwrite main game files, all of the overwrites are done virtually.
• it shows you exact conflicts so you will never encounter a problem in game and wonder what it is caused by, because you have in-depth details of exactly which mod files are replaced by which mod.
• you can use it portable, which means you don't have to reinstall it if you change your OS or you want to move your whole game folder along with your mods folder to a different computer, no problem, the portable installation even keeps your OS clean!
• you don't have to log into nexus website.
• there is no information sent to nexus or other websites like those that NMM send, absolutely no calling home.
• there is no advertisement.
• and many many more benefits...

so happy modding with nmm...

i cannot speak for vortex but i'm sure a comparison would lead to a comparable result.

 

why do you insist that nmm has the features and reliability as mo or vortex have? are you trying to tell me darkones decision to develop vortex was stupid and without any reason and all the complains about nmm were fake ? do you really believe this is just conspiracy against nmm or a claim of a few dumb users like me? it seems to me quite foolish to raise again this whole debate. i think everything is said to that topic and nobody urges anyone to abandone his beloved mod manager. this is just a matter of using valid information, comparison, proven stability and convenience.

 

my 60ies obmm version (in 2014 :wink:) had no new version or profile problem but a problem with file handling. when i tried to change load order within one profile obmm was not able to reproduce exactly the previous state of the game with my mix of mods after uninstalling a buggy mod. trying to fix this mess with obmm made things worse and even unmanageable. i hope for you that these instabilities are fixed to some extend but if i talk to expirienced nmm users they do not show much confidence using nmm. they seem more like happy if everything works if they test or install a new mod in a complex setup ("i do not like to touch it if not explicitly necessary"...). i say that should not be a matter of luck. a system should be fully reliable and easy to manage even in complex test and modding scenarios like sorting out a bad mod using diffrent load order and mod configurations. a thing people do not like to do with nmm due to fear of instability - at least my experience in 2020/21 exchanging experience wirth an nmm user with a compex game setup.

and i doubt he will chose nmm for his next game project...

 

 

 

back to the topic - there is or can be a difference between (de)activating and (un)installing a mod and the reliability of these actions and the way this is performed depends on what mod manager (and settings) you use - if you use one at all.

 

if you use a modmanger like mo or mo2 with virtual file system a (de)activation of a mod means it is treated like that it was never (un)installed before. it is like a virtual (un)installation by (un)marking the mod. it is comparable to completely (un)hiding. this action does not depend on the current loadorder in any way. no phyical changes on hard disk or in game or in mod folder are performed. the mod is always available but it depends if it is marked or unmarked if you see it in the game. (un)installation is the physical process of integrating or deleting a mod in a game setup. with mo/mo2 this means your setup is physically exactly like if this mod or any part of it was never installed before. you need a complete backup to reinstall the mod.

 

for nmm: heyyou ?

 

for vortex: ?

[HeyYou]

Nevermind. This simply isn't worth my time or effort. You believe whatever you want. I just hope that the folks you are feeding misinformation to, don't get bitten by it.

[xrayy]

seems i know much more about nmm than you know about mo/mo2. i would apprechiate an open discussion if there are any new facts or breathtaking nmm features which change the game comparing mod manager. but i don't see that and what you said was nothing new at all but simply wrong in some detail regarding mo2. i now many nmm user who like their nmm and still use it - and in gods name why not ? but they admit also that they would not use it again comparing with the more advanced options in the meantime available. and i would say vortex and mo2 are clearly these two futureproof options, vortex even officialy supported. i don't know exactly what you are arguing or fighting for. turn back the time 5 years or more ?

[xrayy]

Nevermind. This simply isn't worth my time or effort. You believe whatever you want. I just hope that the folks you are feeding misinformation to, don't get bitten by it.

there is no misinformation from my side i know about so far. apart from that it is not fair to raise misinformation claims without proving them. a method you recently also used in some debate topics. what is your intention behind that ?

[Guest deleted34304850]

vortex is bloody ace though, isnt it?

[xrayy]

:wink: nmm seems to be tougher as you can see here - at least for me in this topic. but i can confirm mo(2) is a breeze and a pleasure - at least the last 6 years :D

it is somehow a tragedy that mo2 gave me no reason to try vortex so far because both mod mangers are raised by tannin who did amazing work on both. he is the "father" of the geniuos "virtual file system" idea which solved so many nasty problems for me.

[hucker75]

 

Nevermind. This simply isn't worth my time or effort. You believe whatever you want. I just hope that the folks you are feeding misinformation to, don't get bitten by it.

there is no misinformation from my side i know about so far. apart from that it is not fair to raise misinformation claims without proving them. a method you recently also used in some debate topics. what is your intention behind that ?

 

 

I don't need to know anything about any of the managers to see which of you is correct. I tend to go with the calm reasoned responses, rather than the loud shouty one who yells "you're an idiot" all the time. You might want to rethink your attitude.