TESVEdit is not hard, people.

[Khormin]

And there. Edited the original post to be not-so-snarky.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

Cool man, and I apologize for any part I played on not defusing the situation and for insulting you.

 

Yeah, there are plenty of non harmful dirty edits out there nudedragon though some of them easily can become problematic if another mod tries to reference them or something.

 

(Keep in mind my knowledge is limited so this is only from what I have read, seen on tutorials, and my limited experience)

 

Khormin, seems like you really like a challenge, lol. The very few parts that I did understand seem a bit complex but I'm sure between you and some of the other notable modders, you could get it sorted though.

[Khormin]

I also just realised what has been taken on as well.

I wouldn't repost a mod that has been TES5Edit cleaned by the automation. I'm talking the full, finishing-what-wasn't, broken edits to task. That isn't against the rules - because by the time it's done, the only resemblence to the original is that they both aimed to achieve the same thing.

[Khormin]

Well, in the very least, the proof of concept file works. It's just not release-worthy 'cause it's not what I wanted.

 

 

http://s13.postimg.org/j4s3qg8zb/Windowed_Fullscreen.png

 

[GrimyBunyip]

If you read the first two posts, the OP really isn't here to downgrade anyone specifically.

He's just trying to make a point, that point in his own words being: "Show some pride in your work, please people!"

The first two posts, IMO, really aren't that offensive.

 

It seems to me people are upset because they think Khormin is taking the work other people put into his mods for granted.

Whereas it seems to me that Khormin is just trying to say that if you're going to release a mod that a lot of people are going to use, you should take some time to insure its quality.

If not for the people that are going to use the mod, than at least for the sake of personal pride.

 

It's essentially a utilitarian argument.

If the modder had just spent 5 minutes to clean his mod, then his say, 1000 users wouldn't need to spend 5 minutes each cleaning his mod, and that would save 5000 minutes of utility.

 

Whereas users such as Prod are arguing a contractualist argument.

When a modder uploads a mod, he's essentially giving you free stuff.

And since he gives you free stuff, the user and the modder make the unspoken agreement that a) you get free stuff but b) you shouldn't treat the modder like garbage.

 

The thing is though, it's not like there's no universal conclusion on whether Utilitarianism or Social Contract Theory are better than the other.

You can google "Utilitarianism vs Social Contract Theory" and find countless articles debating the topic.

Can we please not bring it up here? If centuries of philosophy couldn't resolve that debate, we're not going to resolve it here.

 

We have 2 problems:

a) Khormin wants a higher standard of Quality

b) Everybody else would like that, but isn't willing to scare off shy modders to acquire it. =

 

is there or is there not a way to resolve these two issues?

[Zaldir]

First of all, no modder have any obligation whatsoever to clean their mod. Is it ideal that they do? Yes, of course, and I would recommend everyone to do it. But the way you are wording things are just... no... Be more respectful - there is no need to bash people for not cleaning their mod - just suggest to them to do it.

 

Secondly, if you are planning to upload other people's (cleaned) mods... unless you have permission to do so, don't do it. As was stated, you will get banned. Even if you do not agree with the quality of a mod, it does not give you the right to steal the mod and re-upload it.

[Maverick827]

I'm a professional software developer.

 

I have no idea what TES5Edit is or what problem it intends to solve. I'm almost positive that whatever it is, it is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be, and also that it's most likely more so the fault of the tool (Creation Kit, Papyrus compiler, etc.) than the developer.

 

I personally wouldn't blame a colleague for not wanting to have to use some third-party software to fix a core issue and I certainly wouldn't blame amateurs for doing the same.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Maverick827

[Khormin]

<_< Not to seem further disrepsectful, but both issues have been corrected well before you jumped in. Unless you mean that the edit is disrespectful, or that it's now bannable to make a mod that does the same thing as what someone else says their mod does, even if it doesn't?

[prod80]

@GrimpyBunyip: He edited his first posts... well ok, at least now he doesn't step on everyone's toes. Thanks.

 

Apologies if you were trying to make a point just were frustrated and brought it the wrong way of what you might of intended. You were too general in your wording... you have maybe how many mods? 50, 100, 200? Of all the 35.000 or so mods which are uploaded. Your sample size is simply not high enough to make valid assumptions on the qualifications of people around. Sure there's a lot of trash - but who cares. You are free to select what you think is good work, and perhaps change a thing left or right to your own needs or standards... be happy you can do that and are not completely reliant on the person who made it. You should take care in what you say a bit - this community (as you probably know) is trying to help each other in good ways - and in general people starting a flame war without construct are not very well welcomed (some people even get instantly banned from all the nexus sites). I understand from an IT point of view (I work in IT as well) that you say modders are being paid by proxy, but really, there is only a handful of people who can complain about that - and those are the people who host/maintain the Nexus sites and actually pay for all this (and honestly - a premium membership to support those people doesn't cost that much compared to what these sites offer). As long as they do not enforce any QA on uploaded content, you as a contributor do not have a word of what can and cannot be uploaded and to which quality standards it has to be made, premium member or not - you decided to pay for being one on yourself, it's not being forced upon you.

 

Your proof of concept is nice - I have not downloaded or tested it (I wont really know what purpose it has - 1 time setup of those settings seems to be enough) and feels a bit as a, well what you say "Lets see if it can be done" project, nevertheless, it's not easy. I will dig a bit in it later, just to check it out. I'm sure it can be extended (or maybe it already is - like I said I haven't checked it out) into some nice framework that can do things the game cannot. Just an idea; maybe you should see if you can create some sort of loader from it for ENB settings (and/or other post processors) and configurations... letting you manage multiple presets which can be edited, saved, reloaded, etc. That would actually be something useful and new. Maybe even integrate performance monitors showing you CPU/RAM/VRAM usage in game, people love that stuff. It can be done already (those post processors have the ability to show information either in game or outside) but they cannot save presets or log data, and you have to manually edit ini files to link them together or to disconnect them again, reloading the game each time. A nice GUI for doing such things and being able to load/unload/change/etc from inside the game can be useful.

 

Just do your best intentions, help people out with knowledge you have and they don't (or have to a lesser extend) and when you have problems people will be more than happy to help you out as well when the tables are turned. They learn from you, you learn from them, everyone gets better.

[Khormin]

<Grumbles>

 

<Snips the post he left against better thinking about it>

Edited June 11, 2013 by Khormin