TESVEdit is not hard, people.

[GrimyBunyip]

@GrimpyBunyip: He edited his first posts... well ok, at least now he doesn't step on everyone's toes. Thanks.

 

Apologies if you were trying to make a point just were frustrated and brought it the wrong way of what you might of intended. You were too general in your wording... you have maybe how many mods? 50, 100, 200? Of all the 35.000 or so mods which are uploaded. Your sample size is simply not high enough to make valid assumptions on the qualifications of people around. Sure there's a lot of trash - but who cares. You are free to select what you think is good work, and perhaps change a thing left or right to your own needs. You should take care in what you say a bit - this community (as you probably know) is trying to help each other in good ways - and in general people starting a flame war without construct are not very well welcomed (some people even get instantly banned from all the nexus sites). I understand from an IT point of view (I work in IT as well) that you say modders are being paid by proxy, but really, there is only a handful of people who can complain about that - and those are the people who host/maintain the Nexus sites and actually pay for all this (and honestly - a premium membership to support those people doesn't cost that much compared to what these sites offer). As long as they do not enforce any QA on uploaded content, you as a contributor do not have a word of what can and cannot be uploaded and to which quality standards it has to be made.

 

Your proof of concept is nice - I have not downloaded or tested it (I wont really know what purpose it has - 1 time setup of those settings seems to be enough) and feels a bit as a, well what you say "Lets see if it can be done" project. I will dig a bit in it later, just to check it out.

 

Just do your best intentions, help people out with knowledge you have and they don't (or have to a lesser extend) and when you have problems people will be more than happy to help you out as well when the tables are turned. They learn from you, you learn from them, everyone gets better.

To clarify, I read his first post and started writing that post before he edited :P

 

Personally, I use what, 30 files in my load order right now? And about 5 of them are my own mods.

And naturally 4 of them are Skyrim.exe, update.esm, dragonborn.esm, and dawnguard.esm.

And I know some people in the community who are also really really picky about quality.

To the point they'll rebuild a mod from scratch (as opposed to downloading an existing mod and polishing that one), just because of a minor technical issue.

I'd like to just put that out there.

 

Anyways, has a peer review thread ever been attempted?

I wouldn't mind getting my mods put under the microscope for once, or vice versa.

[Khormin]

That is partially what's covered. The idea is that the loaders would rearrange the files pretty quickly based off a simple edit table. Tying it into the NMM isn't hard, either - it'd just be a case of intercepting the nxm: call from the site and filtering it for keywords. The post isn't about the idea, though, so I'm back on topic now.

I am, however, allowed to call for people to lift their game. I'm not doing a name-and-shame, but I can damn well tell people to stop being lazy.

 

That said, the calls that it was harsh are, and were, right. That's why I changed it - not because of the message, but the wording.

 

 

There's a site coming up that's got something similar. I'm only just aware of it myself, though.

What about a rating system a la Steam's star rating?

[Zaldir]

"that it's now bannable to make a mod that does the same thing as what someone else says their mod does"

- No, but taking someone else's mod, editing it, and uploading it without the original author's permission is against the rules. But if you are going to make as many edits as you say you are ("by the time it's done, the only resemblence to the original is that they both aimed to achieve the same thing"), you could just as well make your own mod, and not edit someone else's. Ideas are fair game. :wink:

 

But yes, thanks for editing your posts - it reads a lot better than what they originally did.

 

 

By the way, after re-reading some of your posts: TESVGecko on Dark Creations is not defunct.

[Kraeten]

Modders provide content for free. Free. Bethesda charged you sixty bucks, and their games and dlc have more bugs than most mods. Go ahead and make threads that demand bethesda to properly patch their games, but you mind your tone when you make demands of modders. Better yet, don't make any demands what so ever. I've read this thread entirely. I've seen how you've back pedalded. I still don't care for the message of this thread.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kraeten

[GrimyBunyip]

Modders provide content for free. Free. Bethesdar charged you sixty bucks, and their games and dlc have more bugs than most mods. Go ahead and make threads that demand bethesda to properly patch their games, but you mind your tone when you make demands of modders. Better yet, don't make any demands what so ever. I've read this thread entirely. I've seen how you've back pedalded. I still don't care for the message of this thread.

Well if you read the entire thread you should basically know what I'm about to say:

 

The whole "Modders provide content for free and shouldn't be accountable" thing is fundamentally a belief system.

One that a lot of Skyrim people buy into apparently.

Similarly, the argument that Khormin is pushing forth, "If there's an easy common knowledge fix to your mod, you should do it" is also a belief system.

 

Either can be considered "good" or "bad" in different, and reasonable moral theories.

 

So if you'll agree with me that these are both belief systems, I'd like to point out the following:

 

You're upset at Khormin for trying to preach his belief system with "poor tone".

But fundamentally, aren't you doing the same thing to him?

But instead of preaching "Fix your mods", you're just preaching "Modders provide content for free".

 

I read the original post, and yeah the tone's kind of poor, but it's really not much worse than the responses he's been getting.

The only distinction seems to be that the community tolerates one belief system but not others.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with one belief system over the other.

I do have a problem with certain groups of people going completely unquestioned though, I find that unhealthy for a community.

Edited June 12, 2013 by GrimyBunyip

[Kraeten]

 

Either can be considered "good" or "bad" in different, and reasonable moral theories.

 

 

I am not going to bring moral relativity into this. These "certain groups" you've mentioned have shared their imagination and expertise with the community for absolutely nothing in return. You don't get to brush off their generosity and make demands. This website is sustained because of these people. It's why people come here in the first place.

 

Edit: If I'm preaching anything, it's that people need to remember to be grateful.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kraeten

[Khormin]

Modders provide content for free. Free. Bethesdar charged you sixty bucks, and their games and dlc have more bugs than most mods. Go ahead and make threads that demand bethesda to properly patch their games, but you mind your tone when you make demands of modders. Better yet, don't make any demands what so ever. I've read this thread entirely. I've seen how you've back pedalded. I still don't care for the message of this thread.

 

So, the message of "Actually finish what you've said you did", doesn't appeal to you?

 

Looking forward to doing a review of your mods, then.

 

In essence, morals don't even come into it. I'm calling people on their ethics. Releasing something under false pretenses, that costs me money, invalidates the 'for free'. Hackers could break into my computer "for free" as well. Or someone could carjack me "for free". Just because I didn't pay the modder directly for it means absolutely nothing. So, the moral stance has no impact.

 

 

 

I am not going to bring moral relativity into this. These "certain groups" you've mentioned have shared their imagination and expertise with the community for absolutely nothing in return. You don't get to brush off their generosity and make demands. This website is sustained because of these people. It's why people come here in the first place.

 

Edit: If I'm preaching anything, it's that people need to remember to be grateful.

 

 

Well then. I've also shared "free" the complaint that people haven't been "sharing" anything but unfinished work. Would you please be grateful?

 

 

When my child 'generously' hands me a rock, I accept it graciously. Because there's no pretense that it's other than a rock. If she offers it with imagination about it, I accept the rock and the story.

 

When she breaks a game controller, that isn't a "gift". Even if unintentional, she gets told to be careful with it.

 

Ergo, that same concept is passed on here. If someone puts up a mod claiming to be a sword, and I find that instead it's a broken-texture CTD instigator, I will not be 'grateful for the imagination'. They just played a joke at people's expense. One that isn't funny.

 

If they had said "WIP", "Needs fixing", anything, I'd be happy to keep looking elsewhere. Instead, there's pictures "of the sword" and a little spiel about it. That imagination, though, is just raising hopes that are then not met. There's nothing to be 'grateful' about there.

 

So. Can it. This isn't "moral relativity" at all. You're just being a prat.

[Zaldir]

Khormin, the primary thing you seem to be missing when it comes to modding is this:

Modders don't mod for you, they mod for themselves. They share because they like what they have made.

 

Your comparing a modder to a carjacker, a hacker, and a child that breaks your controller... Forgive me, but you are making no sense whatsoever.

A carjacker is stealing something from you.

A hacker is doing something to your computer without your consent.

A child that is breaking your controller... is breaking your controller.

A modder is offering a free add-on to your game, that you can download if you want or pass up if you do not want to download it.

 

Yes, your complaint is free, but unlike a mod, your complaint is targeted at individual users. So no, they should not necessarily be happy about the complaint.

 

You are making analogies that make no sense at all.

[Kraeten]

Khormin, the primary thing you seem to be missing when it comes to modding is this:

Modders don't mod for you, they mod for themselves. They share because they like what they have made.

 

Your comparing a modder to a carjacker, a hacker, and a child that breaks your controller... Forgive me, but you are making no sense whatsoever.

Couldn't agree more. Kindly lock this thread won't you?

[Khormin]

And the primary thing people are doing is putting words in my mouth.

I never said they mod "for me". I complain that there is a growing habit of incomplete mods being offered as "complete". So stop jumping to conclusions, and Kraeten, get back under your bridge.