TESVEdit is not hard, people.

[Kraeten]

And the primary thing people are doing is putting words in my mouth.

 

I never said they mod "for me". I complain that there is a growing habit of incomplete mods being offered as "complete". So stop jumping to conclusions, and Kraeten, get back under your bridge.

 

Do explain how Zaldiir is putting words in your mouth. I'm all ears. I won't even flag your last post as inappropriate for directly insulting me.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kraeten

[Zaldir]

And the primary thing people are doing is putting words in my mouth.

 

I never said they mod "for me". I complain that there is a growing habit of incomplete mods being offered as "complete". So stop jumping to conclusions, and Kraeten, get back under your bridge.

And I never said that you said that modders mod for you. I said that it SEEMS that you are missing this point. If that is not the case, then good.

And when I say "mod for you", I don't mean you specifically, but basically everyone that uses the mod.

 

Now, we both agree that cleaning with TESVEdit is something everyone should be doing. However, demanding that they do it, and comparing them to hackers and carjackers is not the way to get people to do it.

Many people are afraid of screwing up with a third party tool, simply don't know about it, or don't even realize that their mod also require cleaning. How can we help them to clean their mod? Well, you can, in the comment section, kindly state that their mod requires cleaning, or PM them about it, perhaps even offer to clean it and send it to them, allowing them to upload the cleaned mod (since you are already prepared to upload cleaned mods).

 

 

And to everyone, let's keep insults and bickering out of the discussion, shall we?

[Khormin]

By the way, after re-reading some of your posts: TESVGecko on Dark Creations is not defunct.

 

It isn't? I've been checking on it fairly regularly, the creator's been on hiatus for months, unless in the very recent past he came back?

 

Last Updated: Oct 02 2012 04:31 AM - That's at the mod page http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/files/file/388-tesvgecko/

 

Andalay certainly hasn't been back to it since then.

 

 

http://s14.postimg.org/eyvf7qnz5/Broke_d.png

 

 

And it certainly isn't working as intended. Nor is Andalay responding about the bug report.

 

So I would consider this defunct, unless there's different info somewhere about this.

[Khormin]

As for the bickering, you won't have to worry about it further. Once someone shows they're reactive, I just igniore them until they calm down or pull their head in. It's no skin off my nose.

For the point of TESVEdit cleaning, though, I've been repeatedly talking about mods that are broken. I don't care if they're ITM, or some UDR that are auto-cleanable. I've said this more than once, too. Right from the start, when I realised that it could have been interpeted as that - and the OP was edited to fix that six hours ago.

So kindly stop kicking at me for something I haven't said intentionally. That's the "words in my mouth".

[Khormin]

TES5Edit

A guide to more than just auto-cleaning.

Let's try explaining this again, again. Instructions will be short, I'll leave the exploration on how to figure any missing pieces up to you - play around and have some fun if you get lost. No-one's holding a gun to your head over this, though if they are, call the police.

 

1) Apply filter for cleaning

Same as if you were about to clean it. Right-click on the mods list, select "Apply filter for cleaning"

2) Select said mod that is being checked for breaks

Right-click and select, in order, "Remove Identical to Master" and "Undelete and Remove". This is a step in the process of cleaning your mods.

3) Check the less-easy-cleaned conflicts

There may still be navmeshes that could not be auto-cleaned. The side window will say something like "Warning, plugin contains records that could not be undeleted" or "Error: Record out of order"

4) Open said mod

You do this by clicking on the + button next to it.

5) Navigate to the error manually, and then find what needs to be fixed.

6) You now have a targeted analysis of a bug that you can now clean with CK or Nifskope

[Khormin]

As a nifty side, you can even see compatibility and conflicts with other mods.

[Kraeten]

As for the bickering, you won't have to worry about it further. Once someone shows they're reactive, I just igniore them until they calm down or pull their head in. It's no skin off my nose.

 

For the point of TESVEdit cleaning, though, I've been repeatedly talking about mods that are broken. I don't care if they're ITM, or some UDR that are auto-cleanable. I've said this more than once, too. Right from the start, when I realised that it could have been interpeted as that - and the OP was edited to fix that six hours ago.

 

So kindly stop kicking at me for something I haven't said. That's the "words in my mouth".

 

How mature of you, pardon me while I "pull my head in". As if anyone would need to put words in your mouth, your latest insulting comparisons are quite clear enough.

[GrimyBunyip]

I am not going to bring moral relativity into this. These "certain groups" you've mentioned have shared their imagination and expertise with the community for absolutely nothing in return. You don't get to brush off their generosity and make demands. This website is sustained because of these people. It's why people come here in the first place.

 

Edit: If I'm preaching anything, it's that people need to remember to be grateful.

 

Your goal and Khormin's goals aren't mutually exclusive.

You're the one that's projecting the lack of gratitude onto Khormin, I personally don't think holding modders to a higher standard fundamentally shows a lack of gratitude.

Khormin's just saying modders should clean their mods out of decency and a sense of pride.

 

He's saying: "hey when I make mods, I do this and you should too."

He's not saying: "hey I'm lazy, why don't you do this for me."

 

The former is a peer to peer argument.

Whereas you're implying that he's somehow biting the hand that feeds him.

 

Khormin, the primary thing you seem to be missing when it comes to modding is this:

Modders don't mod for you, they mod for themselves. They share because they like what they have made.

 

Your comparing a modder to a carjacker, a hacker, and a child that breaks your controller... Forgive me, but you are making no sense whatsoever.

A carjacker is stealing something from you.

A hacker is doing something to your computer without your consent.

A child that is breaking your controller... is breaking your controller.

A modder is offering a free add-on to your game, that you can download if you want or pass up if you do not want to download it.

 

Yes, your complaint is free, but unlike a mod, your complaint is targeted at individual users. So no, they should not necessarily be happy about the complaint.

 

You are making analogies that make no sense at all.

I'm pretty sure Khormin gets the whole modders work for free thing, I mean, he said so explicitly already hasn't he?

 

 

As I said, I apologise. I didn't intend to make it sound like "modders do what I want".

 

I think the misunderstanding Zalldir, is that you think Khormin is acting self entitled, when he isn't.

Like I said, he's making a peer to peer argument.

 

Is he really going to get much benefit out of modders putting their mods to a higher standard? No.

Is he demanding modders make content for him? No. It probably won't even save him any time since he can clean his mods with TES5edit himself.

 

I hope you guys can just understand that distinction.

It's one thing to accuse someone being rude, which Khormin was, and he backpedaled on his language, but not his message.

But you're also accusing Khormin of being ungrateful, which I think is unjustified in this case.

 

The Skyrim Community is just really quick to pull the "don't criticize modders because they work for free" argument.

And in this case, this argument is being forced onto Khormin when it doesn't really fit the circumstances.

Edited June 12, 2013 by GrimyBunyip

[Zaldir]

Khormin, Andalay is working in the background for the moment I think. I'm fairly active at DC, and she is definitely working on it (though I do not know much about the progress).

 

And yes, I understand that you mean more than UDRs and ITMs, and that is why I am saying that many people don't really know how to do it, or don't dare to try. I know you covered that in your OP (by saying that it is not targeted at them), but I don't think the number of people deliberately not cleaning their mods out of laziness is that big - I think the number of people not cleaning because they don't know how or why they should clean, or even that mods require cleaning, is the majority.

 

Grimy, I would say that comparing a modder to a carjacker or a hacker seems a bit ungrateful. I know that is not Khormin's intent, but if he wants the word to reach the modders, it needs to be written in such a way that instead of feeling disgust towards him because of his wording, they be left with the knowledge of the fact that mods do require cleaning (in most cases).

[Kraeten]

Grimy, I would say that comparing a modder to a carjacker or a hacker seems a bit ungrateful. I know that is not Khormin's intent, but if he wants the word to reach the modders, it needs to be written in such a way that instead of feeling disgust towards him because of his wording, they be left with the knowledge of the fact that mods do require cleaning (in most cases).

 

You sir are a master of understatement. If there's to be a concerted effort to clean mods, it should be led by the staff of this website. Otherwise we shouldn't make a fuss over it. Good if you can, oh well if you can't. Nothing more needs to be said. No threats. No accusations of laziness.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kraeten