DoctaSax Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Cathedral v parlor wouldn't be so bad if people didn't misinterpret cathedral all the time. The main point being who it's for: other creators, or users. If the former, it's about helping each other out, because you want to, the Free/Libre Open-Source Software philoshophy, which I share when it comes to stuff I put out. Take away the voluntary part, and it's about toiling away in the mines for those who never contribute, which is unsustainable as a creation model, but quite popular with users and posers. SInce the term cathedralism has become so corrupted by the latter it's time to just re-brand what's good about it and ignore the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeelooMinai Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 The whole parlor/cathedral thing wouldn't really be an issue if it weren't for some very vocal people trying to force everyone to be cathedral.You like controlling your own work? Great! The law says you own it and the copyright on it.You want your work to be added to other modders work to make a glorious new vision? Great! Release your mod to public domain or under a cc or similar license.It's mostly as far as I can tell people wanting to exploit a "parlor" modder's work without permission who are the most vocal. They need to get over it. If they want something like parlor modder's Mod X (whatever it may be) to be in the public domain so much they should make their own version (from scratch, not just swiping the assets and slapping their name on it) and release it to the public domain.Thatâs exactly it! If you wanna be cathedral, fine work within cathedral. Itâs actually thou pretty sad, because many mod authors grant you permission. In the end, this all just evolved because people didnât ask and just ripped stuff away without even giving proper credit. So it all boils down again to, if people could be just at least decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeelooMinai Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Cathedral v parlor wouldn't be so bad if people didn't misinterpret cathedral all the time. The main point being who it's for: other creators, or users. If the former, it's about helping each other out, because you want to, the Free/Libre Open-Source Software philoshophy, which I share when it comes to stuff I put out. Take away the voluntary part, and it's about toiling away in the mines for those who never contribute, which is unsustainable as a creation model, but quite popular with users and posers. SInce the term cathedralism has become so corrupted by the latter it's time to just re-brand what's good about it and ignore the rest.Oh gosh so much this! Cathedral gets as well abused as a shallow argument to justify greed, unappreciativeness and selfishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanderat Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Ok. Here is the actual definitions of cathedral vs. parlor (and I know because I was around when Wrye wrote this). https://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html#CathedralvsParlor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeelooMinai Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Yeah You're a bit late on this one. The modders got their 30 days to decide what to do and that ran out on 3rd of this month. It is, as they say, a done deal. Edit: yeah and saw this today https://www.pcgamer.com/amp/one-of-skyrims-most-popular-modders-is-pulling-his-work-from-nexus-mods/Yeah, actually a friend of mine sent me a DM yesterday showing a GamesRadar and i got aware of what's happening. I've beeing away from the site for some about half a year, maybe a little more because irl stuff ;\ But gods be dammed, hope modders manage to create a new heaven for their work, and that be a place thar fracking respect their works...  Would be interesting to see how many unique IPs of the 29million users have clicked on the announcement and then how many digged themselves through that wall of textâ¦. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeelooMinai Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Ok.àHere is the actual definitions of cathedral vs. parlor (and I know because I was around when Wrye wrote this).àhttps://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html#CathedralvsParlorThe thing is thou, that, like many things in life, this isnât a black and white topic, nor does a cathedral supporter want that their broken mods continue to break things when people use them. Like all systems have strength and weakness. I donât even say I am parlor nor cathedral. I just donât want that bad people get away with their bad behavior edit: and I donât want that my mods break things. And something like cathedral for example invites abuse and unappreciativeness immense. Then we have as well the case, cathedral might work in an utopian world, but we donât live in one. Do I want the world and the people to be different where stuff like cathedral approach work. Sureâ¦I really do. But that ainât the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLover264 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Ok. Here is the actual definitions of cathedral vs. parlor (and I know because I was around when Wrye wrote this). https://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html#CathedralvsParlorI'm not sure linking that article is a very good idea. It is incredibly biased towards Cathedral and openly belittles Parlor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctaSax Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 There's nothing utopian about it if you keep the element of choice. Cathedralism is simply FOSS, translated to the state of modding around '05, when mod disappearance due to site disappearance was a big concern, and Wrye's position is obviously also infused by certain frustrations he had at the time. Yet for all that, while he says he thinks modders should adopt it, I don't think he says anywhere that it should be forced on them. The main objective of FOSS is encouraging the creation of things and it tries to achieve that by making it easier for people to copy and build further on what already exists. Some people only want to create if they maintain control over what they create, so while FOSS proponents think their way is better (it's allowed), they should accept others going about it differently. Otherwise they just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchinBunny Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Forcing would imply they couldn't even leave the site and go somewhere else if they wanted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethjunkie Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 There are so many who treat this place like a cathedral, when it really is a parlor for bankers who put pictures up on their walls of all the people that are a success, even just support them buy opening an account, sponsor them by sharing a monthly stipend, buy premium.Paga, I truly love your writing style. You are a treasure <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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