Shutting down the government over Obamacare?

[colourwheel]

 

Rhetoric aside, just saying something is the law doesn't mean it will work. We can look at prohibition for examples of social policies that became laws, only to end up being absolute failures.

 

I think comparing Obamacare to prohibition is not really a good example, for one thing there is no empirical data or evidence that shows Obamacare "doesn't work". Granted "maybe" Obamacare might not work but Republicans Don't even want to give the program a chance to shine or try to even improve on it. It seems the basic message that echos from republican party these days is abolish everything and anything that is "not prefect" from Obamacare to the IRS instead of improving or trying to fix.

 

 

 

When Millions of Americans are getting afford healthcare that couldn't before whether you believe they deserve it or not is a big step in making our country a better place.

 

 

Please show me where he said anything of the sort. poisoning the well or placing words in others mouths doesn't construct a case, it lessens it!

 

You are reading into this statement too much. I was not putting words in anyones mouth. I was simply commenting on the premise of people being under or unemployed on why they do not have healthcare.

 

 

I don't know the particulars of this law,

 

Maybe you should go read up on it then. Who knows you might actually like Obamacare.

 

 

 

Are the Republicans really concerned about health care? This is not about health care – it’s about politics, the lack of caring for people and the lust for power by the Republicans at any cost (except to them and their rich friends of course). They can't get their way so who do they hurt? The very people they say they are there to protect from bad government. No wonder the Republican Party is dying.

 

I totally agree with you Tidus44. This threat to shutdown the government over Obamacare is totally political. The republican party is scared Obamacare will become just as popular as medicare and the republican party will go down in history trying to obstruct its progress.

Edited August 9, 2013 by colourwheel

[HeyYou]

Americans without health care is a side effect of a MUCH bigger problem. Americans without jobs. Our government is whining that Social Security is running out of money. Medicare is becoming hideously expensive. Entitlement programs taking the biggest bite of the federal budget. (yes, even more than the military....) ALL of these issues have one COMMON cause. Un/Under-Employment. It is also why we now see McDonalds workers demanding 15 bucks an hour........ No one can live on the minimum wage jobs that are being created of late. Our government wants us to think that everything is hunky-dory, that jobs are being created, that unemployment is going down, that america is getting back to work..... And while technically, unemployment HAS gone down.... what they neglect to mention is that one of the main reasons is many folks have LEFT the workforce. (by the government definition.....) They tell us this nice tale, about sunshine and butterflys, when in reality, our economy is still in the toilet, and doing a few more swirls before it finally goes down the pipe.

 

MANDATING the folks buy some product or other, no matter what it is, is indeed unconstitutional. Commerce clause or not. Calling it a 'tax' is simply another lie our government is passing off on us. I wish the republicans the best of luck getting Obamacare repealed. (and I will be voting straight republican ticket in '14)

[colourwheel]

@HeyYou

 

You do realize Republicans do not have any healthcare plan at all to replace Obamacare if they do indeed "manage" to ever repeal it. I Guess I don't understand why you think it's a good idea to deny over 30 million americans healthcare. If the bigger problem is Jobs then you should be pointing the finger at congress to start actually passing job bills instead of being bent wasting time trying to repeal Obamacare.

[Tidus44]

@HeyYou

 

If the bigger problem is Jobs then you should be pointing the finger at congress to start actually passing job bills instead of being bent wasting time trying to repeal Obamacare.

 

Exactly!

[JimboUK]

@HeyYou

 

You do realize Republicans do not have any healthcare plan at all to replace Obamacare if they do indeed "manage" to ever repeal it. I Guess I don't understand why you think it's a good idea to deny over 30 million americans healthcare. If the bigger problem is Jobs then you should be pointing the finger at congress to start actually passing job bills instead of being bent wasting time trying to repeal Obamacare.

 

What on earth is a jobs bill? the best thing governments can do to create jobs is to get out of the way. The biggest bar to job creation in the E.U is regulation and taxation, if career politicians would get their nose out of things they don't understand the west as a whole would be a lot better off.

[colourwheel]

 

What on earth is a jobs bill?

 

Everyone has their own opinion on what a jobs bill is. But the ultimate point of a "jobs bill" is a bill to preserve and/or create jobs and job growth.

 

 

The best thing governments can do to create jobs is to get out of the way.

 

Honestly this is just Ideology talk. There is no proof or disproof as for "the best thing" governments can do to create jobs is to get out of the way.

 

I can talk Ideology too...

 

"I personally believe regulation and taxation are very important when it comes to big corporations. If Government doesn't regulate how or what businesses can do or get away with, inevitably a corporation will have more power than the government itself just based on funds. Corporations will monopolize over everything and anything, they will not only buy out competitors but politicians and military personnel as well as police without any regulations if there is profit to be made. Without regulation a corporation would take human feces and reprocess it with artificial flavoring and sell it back to the public as diet food without any competition if they knew they could make a profit from it. Without regulation corporations would sell Toxic goo as play putty on the toy market for our children If they knew they could profit from it enough to get away with doing so. Deregulation promotes privatized business corruption in a world that revolves around money. Without regulation and taxation a corporation could just take over a government completely. "

 

But lets not let this topic become derailed. The fact is the republican party is threatening to shutting down the government over Obamacare. Which repealing this law doesn't solve creating jobs anyways.

Edited August 10, 2013 by colourwheel

[Lisnpuppy]

Most view a "jobs bill" as a public works project paid for by the government. So like...infrastructure improvements or roads or whatever. More recent versions have including paying to rehire public workers that have been laid off in recent years...teachers, fire fighters, police, etc.

 

Either way it is suppose to provide jobs and encourage economic growth.

 

Lewis Black (the comedian) actually does a very humorous take on this. Unfortunately I can not link it as the language is extreme. It is however, very funny.

 

 

As for Obamacare....as a person that is fortunate that she gets insurance through her husband...I am not sure where I would be if he lost his job or they no longer provided affordable coverage. I have many medical issue and even with coverage I can barely afford things. I recently had to stop taking some of my blood-sugar meds because I could not afford it. I do not misspend my money but sometimes things happen and something had to give.

 

We don't really know if Obamacare will work and I am sure it will have issues. However the concern I have is that because Americans fear anything that might be viewed as socialism...the law is somewhat a Frankenstein-like creations between private insurance and government intervention. This is why it is called a "tax" but isn't really a tax.

 

Though other nations have had issues with socialized medicine I think there are many examples that do work well and could work well. I find it heartbreaking that a nation like the United States which touts wanting to help people be free can not provide the most basic services to its people. We set out to give "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" and to me at least, life means access to decent medical care.

[HeyYou]

The jury is still out on whether Obamacare is going to have any significant impact or not. I would also point out, that the government isn't 'giving' ANYTHING away. They may subsidize some folks, but, that still hasn't been completely worked out, or made public knowledge yet either.

 

And I HAVE been writing to my representatives on a regular basis.

 

To me, a jobs bill would include:

 

Revoking the tax breaks for 'creating jobs in developing nations'. Which translated quite literally to MOVING jobs to developing nations.

Revoke ALL "Free Trade" agreements. Giving corporate america multiple places where folks are willing to work for pennies per hour, and NO pesky environmental laws at all..... to produce products which were once made right here in america is just plain stupid. The corporations make huge profits, product prices actually go up, and the folks that used to have jobs can no longer afford to purchase the products....

Take gasonline (at least) off the commodities market. No more speculators driving up the price.

 

Implement FAIR Trade. We tax imports at the same rate as our exports to the country of origin for similar products. People get the same penalties for purchasing foreign made goods, that the people in the country of origin are subject to. (take a close look at S. Korea, and cars. Sure, the imported cars aren't taxed, but, the folks that buy them end up paying penalities in other fashions.)

 

Get americans back to work in all those good manufacturing jobs that went to China, Malaysia, India, et. al, and they will HAVE insurance, making Obamacare unnecessary.

 

Do I expect any of that to happen? Nope. The corporate lobbyists are far to powerful, and too much money is changing hands for congress to even remotely consider biting the hand that feeds them. None of it will ever make it out of committee.

Edited August 10, 2013 by HeyYou

[Vagrant0]

Do I expect any of that to happen? Nope. The corporate lobbyists are far to powerful, and too much money is changing hands for congress to even remotely consider biting the hand that feeds them. None of it will ever make it out of committee.

And that's probably why this keeps going back again and again for review. Law makers are being given too much money by insurance companies or other parties with an invested interest.

[Tidus44]

Medicare, the system the Republicans want to preserve, is the most costly and least effective health care plan in the world. If the Republicans had any brains at all and truly wanted to cut spending as they so often say (but never do), they would come up with an alternative plan. Do they have an alternative plan? No, and in fact when asked, Republicans have no clear answer on health care reform other than to stop the Affordable Health Care Act.

 

The thing is, the Republicans cannot kill a law that has passed both houses of Congress, the president signed, that has been law for three years and that the Supreme Court has upheld.

 

So just how dishonest and stupid are the Republicans? Sure, they can stand up and state with great buffoonery and bluster that they will champion spending cuts when they know full well they can't stop or kill the AHCA and can't even defund it.

The funding that starts on Jan. 1 is mandatory and is an automatic appropriation that does not require congressional action to budget. To change that, Congress would have to change the law, and that isn't about to happen before Jan 1.

The only thing the Republicans can refuse to fund is the discretionary spending the program identifies, and that is so minor it achieves nothing to hurt the program.

 

I actually hope they are dumb enough to try and shut down the government. This will be a repeat of 1995/1996 where the Democratic President will come out of the whole thing smelling like a rose and the Republicans looking like idiots. Unfortunately, it sounds like some are beginning to see the problems with the strategy and a number of key Republicans have withdrawn their support.